What kind of artillery gun is this?

[cwbuff]

This picture shows men from Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 64. It is the regiment that my wife's grandfather served in from 1915-1918. I'm trying to understand what kind of artillery guns they used. Can anyone identify the gun from this picture?

[auchonvillerssomme]

It looks to me like the 12cm Field Howitzer M12.

[CharlieBris]

Another possibility is a 10.5cm leichte Feldhaubitze 98/09 - the image looks as if the recoil/recuperator assembly is longer than the barrel - the various

12cm Krupp howitzers had barrels about the same length as the recoil assembly.

The 12cm calibre wasn't much used by the Germans who had identified the 15cm as a more effective projectile after extensive firing trials in the

late 1880s and again in 1909. Krupp made a 12cm export howitzer before WW1 - Japan, Russia, Norway and Switzerland were customers.

Regards,

Charlie

[auchonvillerssomme]

I was going not only by the barrel but by the length of the trail, which appears quite short.

[CharlieBris]

The trail on the lFH M98/09 was fairly short as well. Image borrowed from Landships.

Regards,

Charlie

[cwbuff]

What is the best way to find out what guns were issued to this regiment?

[Hoplophile]

The 64^th Field Artillery Regiment began the war as one of the two field artillery regiments of the 32nd Infantry Division. As such, it was either equipped entirely with 77^mm field guns or a mixture of 77^mm field guns and 105^mm field howitzers. (In each active infantry division, one regiment had two battalions of 77mm field guns and the other had one battalion of 77^mm field guns and one battalion of 105^mm field howitzers.)

In 1917, the regiment added a third battalion. After this reorganization, it consisted of two battalions of 77^mm field guns and one of 105^mm light field howitzers.

One way to determine the exact armament of the regiment at any given time would be to check the regimental history:

E. Wagner, Das 5.Königlich Sächsische Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr.64 (Dresden, 1922)

In addition to employing these regularly issued weapons, it is possible that, from time to time, the regiment formed provisional batteries armed with artillery pieces of other sorts. These might have been obsolete German weapons, weapons captured from enemy forces, or prototypes sent to the front for testing.

[cwbuff]

Thanks for the excellent information!

[ph0ebus]

Any chance of seeing the photo just a tad bigger?

-Daniel

[centurion]

What is the best way to find out what guns were issued to this regiment?

Just being technical (pedantic) these are not guns - they are howitzers (for high angle fire) guns are for low angle fire. Today we have dual purpose weapons (gun/howitzers) but in WW1 there were guns and there were howitzers.

[cwbuff]

I can email you a picture, but this was the largest that the forum would let me post.

[bob lembke]

"cwbuff";

I generally agree with the above observations, especially Bruce's pointers.

I have been reading detailed sources on the German side of the brew-up for years, hours a day, and for a year am working on two books on German (larger) artillery. I cannot even recall mention of a unit equipped with 12 cm howitzers. The only guns that I see assigned to field artillery regiments were the 77 mm and 105 mm light field howitzer. For example, I know that the 15 cm howitzer, although called a "heavy field howitzer", were assigned to the Fuss=Artillerie. Likewise, the 10 cm, 12cm, and 15 cm cannon (not howitzers). There were some old 9 cm cannon about, and I think that they also were with Foot Artillery units.

The Germans captured vast amounts of cannon and shell on the East Front; at one fort 900,000 shells and 1300 cannon, at another 1950 mounted and unmounted cannon, at another a Feuerwerk=Hauptmann reported shipping 100 trainloads of usable artillery shells westward in 50 days. Most of the cannon were junk, but useful scrap, especially non-ferrous, but some were not, possibly Krupp, and German formations in the west had a lot of Russian heavy artillery firing all of this ammo off.

But I just read about German units at the siege of Novo Georgievsk in August 1915 having half of their field guns being captured Russian field guns. This is the first time I noticed that. So some field artillery units might have had Russian guns, but again possibly Krupp materiel. (There also was some captured guns of other origins in use.) But I think that a line or active field artillery regiment would be more likely to have standard German cannon, Reserve, Landwehr, or Landsturm formations Beute=Kanone ("Booty cannon"). But, as Bruce suggested, a unit may have formed provisional batteries utilizing captured material. Many German soldiers were cross-trained on enemy equipment.

So I would say, if a "regular" field artillery regiment, almost certainly the 77 mm field gun, or the 105 mm light field howitzer. Very long chance a captured piece.

Bob Lembke