trajan Posted 27 July , 2011 Share Posted 27 July , 2011 Hi, I have an option to buy a 1917 Mauser-made M1898/05 na sawback with scabbard. It is not a fake - it matches perfectly in almost every respect with a really bad (maker and year unidentifiable) relic version of the same type found in Syria, although the quillion curves are slightly different. Apart from which, one grip on this one has been replaced at some point with a poor copy of the original (and lacquered to boot!) , while the other grip is 75% complete, so this is something that has been around for a while. The blade is fine as are the sawteeth. The scabbard is the right one, with extra slots on the locket for the sawteeth, but it is pretty badly dented on both sides. The thing is, bayonet collecting in Turkey is very much a seller's market as there are so few collectors around (and this is the first example of this type I have seen on sale here), and so the price is around 25% more than the average for what I have seen advertised on various web-pages in the UK, AUS or USA. Yes, I know, I am more likely to regret NOT buying it than I am likely to regret buying it, but I cannot help but wonder exactly how rare are these bayonets? - or is the high price (compared to a 'standard' M 1895/05 na, for example) just because of their curiosity value? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gew98 Posted 27 July , 2011 Share Posted 27 July , 2011 The sawback 98'05's are not rare at all. More desireable examples of course are prewar dated and unit marked examples. Exotic unit marks like Pioneer and MG companies add a wad more to value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 27 July , 2011 Share Posted 27 July , 2011 I would have thought that the lack of collectors would have made the prices lower rather than higher... as an alternative could you buy one online rather than from a local dealer? Or are there issues with importing bayonets into Turkey? I would agree that the sawbacks are not particularly rare, but they still seem to carry quite a premium compared with the normal butcher bayonet (for example in the UK a decent 98/05 with scabbard can be had for £90-110, but sawbacks in equivalent condition seem to be more like £200-250). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk VII Posted 27 July , 2011 Share Posted 27 July , 2011 Not rare, but always desirable (like Lugers, really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2011 Thanks everyone for the input! Well, yes, in theory the lack of bayonet collectors over here should mean lower prices but the lack of collectors also means that the sellers only have to face the odd (meaning occasional!) customer and so the price stays up as they do not have enough refusals at the prices they want to charge - if you see what I mean! There is also a general lack of items on sale - even Turkish erastz!!! Does not help. And of course, being a 'yabanci' also does not help as people here assume that all foreigners automatically have wads of cash - and that is certainly NOT the case with foreign university teachers! I am not certain about local customs regulations regarding bayonet imports and have only had one bayonet sent in from Bulgaria - it came through with no problem. But I have a feeling that anything pre-1923 (the year the Turkish Republic was established) is legally classed as an antique and so liable to special taxes, registration with the museum authorities, etc., etc.. As for the price, well, this one, with its poor grips, is about UKL 150, and so I'll go for it. I have seen some really battered standard 1898/05's for sale and one or two have had good grips so I might get one of those and use their grips for the sawback. And the point about the 'must-have' factor of a sawback, as with a Luger, is certainly what I was expecting. Unfortunately, this sawback has no unit markings, but it will fit in nicely with what I have managed to get so far. Thanks again, everyone, for comments and advice. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 July , 2011 Share Posted 29 July , 2011 The 98/05 late-war sawbacks made by Waffenfabrik Mauser A.G. Oberndorf could well be the most common of all the remaining 98/05 sawbacks. Mauser was the sole supplier of German rifles to the Turks late in the war, and huge quantities of Gew98 rifles and 98/05 bayonets were exported. Many sawback bayonets were included in these shipments to Turkey, and as such managed to escape the announced programme of sage abgeschliffen. However some of these sawbacks later had to face that ultimate of all indignations - postwar Turkish 'modification' and 'refurbishment' ie. they were "turked".! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 29 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 July , 2011 The 98/05 late-war sawbacks made by Waffenfabrik Mauser A.G. Oberndorf could well be the most common of all the remaining 98/05 sawbacks. Mauser was the sole supplier of German rifles to the Turks late in the war, and huge quantities of Gew98 rifles and 98/05 bayonets were exported. Many sawback bayonets were included in these shipments to Turkey, and as such managed to escape the announced programme of sage abgeschliffen. However some of these sawbacks later had to face that ultimate of all indignations - postwar Turkish 'modification' and 'refurbishment' ie. they were "turked".! Cheers, S>S Thanks S>S, All the identifiable 98/05 bayonets I have seen in Turkey and next door in Syria have been Waffenfabrik Mauser and I had assumed that they must have had a near monopoly on the supply to the Ottoman army. However, my found Syrian relic sawback does have a slightly different curve to the quillion to the W/fabrik Mauser one that I have bought, and also to the other 'standard' W/fabrik mauser 98/05 bayonets I have been able to compare it with and so I do wonder if it is a different maker. Sadly it is too far gone to recover the year or maker - unless I can get a sympathetic archaeological X-radiographer to do some samples of the ricasso! That said - taking a leaf from your point in another post about ricasso-styles - has anyone else has yet noticed and been pedantic enough to study quillion curves on these bayonets and so can give me a quick answer? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2015 ... However, my found Syrian relic sawback does have a slightly different curve to the quillion to the W/fabrik Mauser one that I have bought, and also to the other 'standard' W/fabrik mauser 98/05 bayonets I have been able to compare it with and so I do wonder if it is a different maker. Best to bring this one to an end after all these years just in case any one gets into it! I'll show that Waffenfabrik 1917 M1898/05 na sawback on another thread, but analysis showed that the Syrian 'relic' example referred to was indeed a Waffenfabrik and either W/16 or W/17. So this thread may as well be locked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts