16th. Casualty Clearing Station Anzac

[bluedog]

Does anyone have any information on the 16th. Casualty Clearing Station

at Anzac.

I am researching an Australian soldier , Pte. P Medlin who was badly wounded

in the Hill 60 battle of Aug. 22nd ,and was treated at the above C.C.S.

He Died of Wounds and has no known grave but I believe that he may be one of

the 262 Unknowns in the 7th.Field Hospital Cemetery.

I have his Service Records and Red Cross File but any further infomation would be

greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Peter

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

This should be on an old coments (check search for 16 CCS) as I went looking for this unit some time ago as I have a number of LH soldiers shown DoW at this hosp but there gave site was lost or not found after the war.

Cheers

S.B

[Fedelmar]

Yep ... that was mine ... still hunting out info on four 10th LH boys that DOW but have no graves.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

PS: thanks Steve.

[Fedelmar]

Peter, the names that I have of those that DOW here and no burials is now 8. These are all WA lads.

[gilly100]

Hi Peter

16th CCS have incomplete records. As I go through my studies for the Hill 60 book, I will be recounting some of their work. It may be limited due to the paucity of records. Will let you know down the track.

Ian

[Fedelmar]

Thanks Ian ...

[Spanna]

Hi, as I research 1st Australian Casualty Clearing Station and read the War Diary there are a number of references to 13 and 16 CCS. Officer Commanding ACCS was appointed Medical Control Officer responsible for all three CCS. 13 CCS had originally been located at No 2 Outpost but was relocated to Walker's Beach and 16 CCS took over the location at No 2 Outpost on 13th August 1915.

[Spanna]

From reading further Lt. Col. Giblin (OC 1ACCS) mentions that the location for 16 CCS at No 2 Outpost was not ideal, the evacuation jetty it was meant to use was under direct rifle fire, therefor it was necessary to take stretcher cases to 13 CCS's jetty, a distance of 1 mile. As there were not enough bearers available wounded had to wait a long time to be evacuated. The OC 16 CCS put in a request for an extra 100 troops to assist with moving the wounded to the beach.

[Fedelmar]

Excellent ...
I am wondering whether the 8 DOW's I have (5 for 29th Aug, 14 & 23 Sept and 17th Nov) were buried at sea and not recorded. This would tie in with Number 2 Outpost. Either way, the 8 should have been buried somewhere it is just a question of where.
Two of the lads for 29th Aug (brothers) were acting as stretcher bearers when they were wounded,

[petestarling]

From what I understand of the medical services at Gallipoli, if they died whilst aboard ship then they were buried at sea so if they died of wounds once off the beach and during evacuation then the chance is they were buried at sea. They would have been recorded somewhere I would have thought.

Pete

[Fedelmar]

Ideally, yes. But in the case of these 8 they are recorded as DOW at 16CCS and on Lone Pine Memorial.

[alantwo]

The 16th CCS records on the 17th November.

'Branch at Mule Gully closed today by order of DOMS, personnel and equipment returned to No.2 Post. No evacuation to HP Ships today. Weather very windy and cold. Heavy rain in evening. Our tents and shelters withstood the wind and rain in a satisfactory manner'.

Some evacuations from Williams pier appear to have been possible the day before, but not the previous couple of days.

The diary doesn't commence until 24th October but there are numerous mentions of them being shelled. The 10th November records

'One of our dug outs blown to pieces'.

Captain Watson, RAMC, states that between Aug 9th and Dec 5th, 16th CCS dealt with 16,330 cases which included Australian and New Zealand, 233 Officers and 6437 Other Ranks.

On the 17 Nov it appears that 13th CCS managed to evacuate 38 cases, 30 sick (3 Officers) and 8 wounded to HS Somali.

Pete - I have a few, admittedly not many, examples of men who died on board a hospital ship but were returned to land for burial before the ship left. I posted an example on the following:

 

Hope that helps.

Regards

Alan

[Fedelmar]

These are the WA lads that we know of ... there is nothing in their records to indicate where they were buried, at sea or otherwise.

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Just to show a small number of men mentioned with this unit, who died and buried with this unit many ended up at Embarkation Pier Cemetery?

BOYDLE John 99 Pte 11 LHR A Sqn att DSqn/02 LHR 8-15 WIA 8-9-15 chest reported 1 man killed when post shelled by 11'' Gun at Old No 3 Post (G) reported killed at Old No 3 Post shown died at 16 CCS buried Old No 2 Post later buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli

HICKS Frederick Allan Anthony 160 Pte 11 LHR A Sqn att DSqn/02 LHR 8-15 WIA 23-9-15 back shot at Old No 3 Post (G) died at 16 CCS believed buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli

CLAYTON John Henry 195 Pte 10 LHR A Sqn C Troop? to Dvr 4-15 WIA 29-8-15 head in attack at Hill 60 (G) died at 16 CCS buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli

HOLLAND Thomas Edwin 211 Pte 10 LHR A Sqn C Troop? to Sgt 8-15 WIA 29-8-15 head in attack at Hill 60 (G) died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli (CSqn CMF 2 years)

HALL Harold 248 Pte 8 LHR B Sqn WIA 30-8-15 abdomen shot at Aghyl Dere (G) died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli

CROWE Archibald 387 Pte 10 LHR C Sqn C Troop reported WIA 14-8-15 knee injury bomb at Russells Top WIA 29-8-15 head, hand & thigh bomb reported from premature bomb burst of own granade at Hill 60 also reported blown up making bombs (G) died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli

HOMER Henry Raymond 505 Pte 2 LHFA to Dvr 4-15 to 7 FAmb 8-15 (G) died jaundice at 16 CCS NKG listed on the Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli AKA Harry Homer four brothers in AIF with Herbert Lt 26Bn MM KIA, and Ernest 7 FA

HALL Charles Arthur Jocelyn 527 Pte 10 LHR A Sqn WIA 29-8-15 abdomen in attack at Hill 60 (G) died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli (Boer War 1 Troop ASqn/8 ACH (41)

GILLAM Sydney Davenport 618 Pte 10 LHR 1R Tos C Sqn C Troop 5-15 WIA 29-8-15 arm in attack at Hill 60 died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli brothers Hubert 10 LHR KIA and Jack MM 44Bn

GILLAM Hubert Evelyn 655 Pte 10 LHR 1R Tos C Sqn C Troop 5-15 WIA 29-8-15 chest/lung bomb in attack at Hill 60 (G) died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli brothers Sydney 10 LHR KIA and Jack MM 44Bn

COLK George Edwin 786 Pte 10 LHR 3R to B Sqn 5-15 WIA 29-8-15 head in attack at Hill 60 (G) died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli (Boer War 2 ACH (572) AKA George Edward Calk

BAIRD Thomas 809 Pte 3 LHFA tos 8-15 WIA 7/8-8-15 R/knee att 4 Bde to 16 CCS near Aghyl Dere (G) to Cpl 11-15 att RHQ/Comp LHR 11-15 to L/Sgt 7-16 to Sgt 12-16 to 14 AGH 4-18 att 8 LHR 1918 MSM reason not stated (5Co AGA CMF 2 years) brother Henry AASC and William AASC

BARR George Herbert 815 Pte 3 LHFA Tos 8-15 reported WIA 7-8-15 & MIA killed att 4 Bde to 16 CCS near Aghyl Dere (G) NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli

HUNT Arthur George 816 Pte 3 LHFA Tos 8-15 (G) killed att 4 Bde to 16 CCS near Aghyl Dere buried 7 FA cemetery

CONE Leslie Knight 819 Pte 3 LHFA WIA 8-8-15 L/thigh att 4 Bde to 16 CCS near Aghyl Dere (G) to 2/AM clerk 67 Sqn (1 Sqn) AFC 12-16 to 1 Wing HQ Tetbury UK 4-18 to 1/AM clerk 7-18 married Minne Roberts at St Marks Gloucester UK 12-3-19 died at Melbourne Hosp buried Fawkner Cemetery Vic

BYRNE Michael 831 Pte 9 LHR 4R to C Sqn 5-15 WIA 2-6-15 head bullet minor wound at Walkers Ridge WIA 28-8-15 head in attack at Hill 60 (G) died at 16 CCS buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli Ex 3R/8 LHR (803) DNE

HANSEN Rasmus Robinson 941 Pte 3 LHFA 1R Tos 8-15 (G) killed when att 4 Bde and 16 CCS near Aghyl Dere buried 7 FA Cemetery Gallipoli (CMF 18 months)

CHAMBERS Stanley 958 Pte 8 LHR 6R to A Sqn 9-15 WIA 23-9-15 side by shrapnel at Canterbury Slope (G) reported KIA died at 16 CCS buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli Ex 1R/8 LHR (122) DNE relist 5R/04 LHR (931) DNE relist

CAPORN Harold de Causey 1007 Pte 10 LHR 6R tos A Sqn? 10-15 (G) reported killed shot to abdoman at No2 Post on Canterbury Slope reported buried 16 CCS later buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli uncle Frederick MM 28Bn

MAHLIT Rudolph 1645 Pte 16Bn 3R WIA 2-5-15 head & R/side buttock WIA 27-8-15 chest at Hill 60 (G) died at 16 CCS NKG listed Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli shown buried with 10 LHR

McDONALD Arthur Elliot 158 L/Cpl 9 LHR A Sqn to Cpl 2-15 WIA 9-9-15 head shot at Rhodadendron Ridge (G) died at 16 CCS believed buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli

PAYNE William Henry Capt 1 Div Cav Sig Mesoptamia att 20 RFA Cav Div died of smallpox at Sadiyeh Hosp (16 CCS) during field operations buried Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery Iraq (CCo/3 IR to Sig Troop CMF 4 years)

RICHARDS Frederick James Archibald 8 Sig/Sgt 11 LHR RHQ att RHQ/9 LHR 8-15 WIA 15-9-15 abdomen reported one of three wounded near the Apex on Rhododendron Spur (G) shown shot by sniper in Mule Gully near No 2 Outpost and died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli Ex 5 LHR (334) DNE underage

SHELDON Charles Wilfred 801 Bugler 3 LHFA reported WIA 7-8-15 att 4 Bde to 16 CCS near Aghyl Dere relist AN&MEF (1928)

SPENCER Robert Ernest 480 Scout 10 LHR C Sqn WIA 29-8-15 multiple wounds face, hands, thighs & body bomb reported from premature bomb burst of own granade in attack at Hill 60 (G) died at 16 CCS NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli

SULLIVAN Albert Michael 802 Cpl 3 LHFA to S/Sgt nurse MID - for his work att 4 Bde and 16 CCS near Aghyl Dere between 7/27-8-15 (G) to RSM 4 LHFA MID - for his actions at 2nd Gaza 19-4-17

WHITE William Henry 598 Pte 11 LHR C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 8-15 to L/Cpl 9-15 shown WIA 16-9-15 abdoman or WIA 15-9-15 reported one of three wounded when shelled at the Apex on Rhododendron Spur (G) died at 16 CCS buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli (Boer War 5 SAIB (474) half brother Alexander 50Bn KIA

Cheers

S.B

[Fedelmar]

Steve,
Spencer is on of the ones that I am talking about. If he DOW he should have a grave. There is no mention of him being buried at sea or anywhere for that matter.

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Purhaps some of the unknown soldiers in Embarkation Pier Cemetery could be some of the missing?

S.B

[Fedelmar]

Quite possibly, but without any details in the service records as to what happened we will never know.

[gilly100]

Hi Sandra and Steve

I have a copy of a letter from Syd Livesey C Sqdn 10LH to John Gillam, father of Syd and Hughie Gillam. It explains graphically how they were wounded and later carried out from the captured D-C Trench.

Hughie was shot through stomach and spine in the charge and was brought in to trench after it was secured. Syd had an arm nearly severed by a bomb straight after gaining the trench, first wounded in trench according to Livesey.

They both later that night died within half hour of each other at a dressing station behind Hill 60.

Bob Spencer and Livesey placed Hughie on an overcoat and helped carry him out, passing him onto newly arrived stretcher bearers. Spencer, of Narrikup Siding, and scout earlier at Suvla, was later blown up and died also.

I plan to use the letter (with permission) in the Hill 60 book.

Where exactly this dressing station was I have not yet determined, but it is where they died according to Livesey, who was advised by a comrade. He also went on to say they were given a proper burial behind the firing line as did all the others who met similar fate.

Does not answer many questions, but does shed some light. It is a most graphic letter, honest and marked with great respect.

Cheers

Ian

[Fedelmar]

Thanks Ian ... the Gillams, Spencer, Hall and Hawley are all 29th. Jeff sent me an article from the Tatura Times (think that is the name) that discusses the Gillams. Did he send it to you when you were doing the 10th?
It's very interesting that there is nothing discussing the burials in the service files makes it hard to know what became of them.

[gilly100]

Sandra

I could not see them carrying the bodies all the way back and going on others who fell earlier taking Damakjelik Bair, such as 4th SWB, I think they were buried as Livesey mentions, just back behind Hill 60. Some bodies buried near Hill 60 were later commemorated at Hill 60, others not. More will come to light when I get my backside back into Hill 60 writing which has ceased for several months due to other commitments. Something will pop up that gives a hint. When I walked Damakjelik in May this year I found a leg bone on a track, near to where the NZers launched their assault on 21 August. They actually had to go a fair way over Damakjelik's ridges and valleys just to get down its last slope, across the dere and into the first trenches on Hill 60 lower slope on southern side. An easy and most doable walk as the valleys are olive groves now and tractor tracks all around. Plan to go back when I can, it was so interesting. In no rush to write it, so great excuse for another reccy. The rangefinder for distances was valuable.

16 CCS diary incomplete as you have already seen from earlier post.

Will keep you privately posted.

Gilly

[Fedelmar]

Thanks Gilly

[Spanna]

If you look through the War Diary of 1 ACCS after Lt. Col. Giblin was placed in control of the three CCS's daily figures are kept for all three, evacuations etc. However other than people from the unit no one is mentioned by name, just stats. From what i have been able to discern burials were conducted where they were brought to, ie FA, CCS or if at sea, then obviously at sea. Though I have seen cases of Officers that died being buried at sea even though the death was at Lemnos.

[Fedelmar]

AIF records usually have entries of burials whether at sea or otherwise in the case of the eight I mentioned that clearly state they DOW there is none yet they are recorded on the Lone Pine memorial. There is no record in the files from the GRU either.

[TonyC]

Does any on have anthing on the 16 casualty clearing station Bagdad? I am researching Sapper LVA Nelson who described how"... 8 bombs were dropped on 16CCS at advancedbase on Jan 25 1918. Sappeer Nelso was part of the Anzac Wireless Bagdad?

[Michelle Young]

To avoid repetition of answers please reply to the post in the link.