Which Regiment

[expatpom]

My uncle enlisted on the 25 May 1912 .We believe this was with the 5Bn Middlesex Regt. His No.was L16501.

His Medal cards indicate that he also served with the 2 Bn Irish Rifles. No.9988 and that he was awarded the MM. He was eventually discharged on the 31 July 1919. We have been unable to locate any of his wartime records.

Can anyone please identify his uniform and regt from the image. We are intrigued with thecane/swagger stick that he is holding. Is this a part of his official uniform?

Tks for any help.

[jay dubaya]

From the date of entry on the MIC I would say he was one of the first of the 1st Bn Middlesex to land in France, the battalion are noted as having landed at Le Harve on 11th August 1914. The 5th Bn was a reserve battalion and saw no overseas service. I can't see any mention of a MM on the MIC only 'clasp and roses' indicating that he came under enemy fire between 5th August and 22nd November 1914.

Looks like he's wearing a corporal's stripe in the photo but no mention on the MIC, the cap badge appears more like the circular patern of the Middlesex Rgt and what could be a wound stripe on his lower left arm which could explain the transfer to the RIR. The swagger stick is most likely a photographers prop but it does look like he's wearing johdpurs which may suggest a mounted roll. A closer look at the photo may reval more.

Intresting note on the reverse of the MIC, was he a policeman?

cheers, Jon

[expatpom]

Thank you kindly for the interpretation Sir – very informative.

He was born in 1894 and we believe he was not quite 18 when he enlisted.

The photo taken with his Mother must have been taken some time later as he is clearly no longer a teenager.

We have not been able to determine when he transferred to the RIR and what role he played with them.

The second Medal Roll card indicates he was a Private.

The MM that I mentioned is shown on a separate Medal Roll card which is where the information regarding his

new regtl number with the RIR came from. What sort of conditions would there be which entailed a transfer

from his “local” County Regt to the RIR?

We believe he became a police officer following his discharge in 1919.

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you kindly for the interpretation Sir – very informative.

He was born in 1894 and we believe he was not quite 18 when he enlisted.

The photo taken with his Mother must have been taken some time later as he is clearly no longer a teenager.

We have not been able to determine when he transferred to the RIR and what role he played with them.

The second Medal Roll card indicates he was a Private.

The MM that I mentioned is shown on a separate Medal Roll card which is where the information regarding his

new regtl number with the RIR came from. What sort of conditions would there be which entailed a transfer

from his "local" County Regt to the RIR?

We believe he became a police officer following his discharge in 1919.

It was common for soldiers who had been wounded (as indicated by his wound stripe) to be transferred to another regiment upon their recovery and return to France (assuming the wound was serious enough for evacuation). After 1916 all drafts of reinforcements and recovered wounded were channeled through the Infantry Base Depot (IBD) at Etaples and it was there that the unit where they went was decided. If they arrived just after an action that caused numerous casualties to a particular unit, drafts of battle casualty replacements would be sent from the IBD irrespective of their original cap badge. This happened to junior officers too although they would usually be on temporary 'attachment' and thus allowed to return to their original unit once the situation permitted (not least because they had to 'purchase' all their regimental insignia and uniforms etc).

The swagger cane/stick he is carrying in the photo marks his dress as "Walking Out" and were a hangover from the pre-war (Regular) Army. Some mention was made that he might have been a regimental policeman and if so he would have been made an Acting Lance Corporal and thus when wounded and leaving the unit/transferred would have had to take his stripes off. The first substantive rank (carrying permanent pay and seniority) was Corporal (2 stripes) and Lance Corporal (1 stripe) was an appointment that was the gift of the commanding officer that could be given out and taken away just as easily. It was in effect a probationery position to assess a mans mettle and suitability for permanent promotion.

The photo seems to have been taken towards the end of the war, either 1918 or 1919 (as medal ribbons would seem to indicate) but the cap badge is too large to be RIR and in general shape is more akin to the Middlesex, although it is very blurred.

[sw63]

Can you let us know his full name. I have Joseph CAINEY from his MIC, but cannot find him on the BMD or Census records.

Simon

[expatpom]

Can you let us know his full name. I have Joseph CAINEY from his MIC, but cannot find him on the BMD or Census records.

Simon

Hi Simon;

His full name is Joseph William Gainey born in Fulham.

As indicated on the 2nd MIC there is a notation (under correspondence) that he was a serving Metropolitan Police Officer.

Thks everyone for all the information so far.

[Mk VII]

Tried the Metropolitan Police ? http://www.fomphc.org.uk/viewpage.php?page_id=15

http://www.met.police.uk/history/records.htm