sgmcgregor Posted 10 July , 2011 Share Posted 10 July , 2011 Hello all, First of all, I am not entirely sure whether this man is a World War 1 soldier. So, because of that, I am posting the whole photograph first. If it is identified as a WW1 soldier, then I can place enlarged images of the various badges on the cap, collar, and shoulder for possible identification. If instead people think this may be a World War 2 soldier, then I can post this on a WW2 forum instead. The picture was sent to me by someone researching their family history, and they aren't sure of the identity of the man in question, and when the picture may have been taken. If anyone can offer any advice, then I would be most greatful. I also apologise in advance should this turn out not be a World War 1 soldier. Kind Regards, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 10 July , 2011 Share Posted 10 July , 2011 I think he is a New Zealander wearing NZ Rifle Brigade Collar badges, but I dont recognise the cap badge. Unfortunately I do not have my book showing NZ Re-inforcement badges to hand. Sepoy By the way - I would go with a Great War Soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdoyle Posted 10 July , 2011 Share Posted 10 July , 2011 Herman John Schmidt was a portrait photographer in Auckland, NZ. Some of his work can be seen online at : http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/virt-exhib/schmidt/portrait.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 10 July , 2011 Share Posted 10 July , 2011 Looking at reg Cox's book, Military Badges of the British Empire, 1914-18, 22nd Reinforcements look closest, but I am by no means an expert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgmcgregor Posted 11 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Thankyou everyone for the responses. Everyone is so helpful here. As the man seems to be a WW1 soldier, I am attaching a closeup of the cap badge, and the shoulder badge, and hopefully this will help more with identification. The website for the photographer Herman Schmidt is particularly helpful, as is the book mentioned in another reply. Does the shoulder badge look like it has the word "EIRE" on it? That had been my first thought, but I'm not so sure now. If he is from the New Zealand Rifle Brigade, maybe it is "NZRB". Is that a valid thought? Thanks, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high wood Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 The shoulder title is NZRB as are the collar badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 And the cap badge looks like 22nd reinforcements (at least, it has a big "22" on it!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgmcgregor Posted 11 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Thanks again for the advice. I've now managed to use the information given to do a search for information on the New Zealand Rifle Brigade, and I'll go from there. Regards, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high wood Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Steven, do you have a name for the soldier? Even a possible surname might be enough. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgmcgregor Posted 11 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Steven, do you have a name for the soldier? Even a possible surname might be enough. Simon. Simon, Thank you for your continued interest. I'm afraid that there is no name known for certain. I hadn't been certain that the photograph was of World War 1 vintage, and so had posted it to try and confirm one way or the other. The family information for the photo had suggested that it may have been a "Robert Rice", and it turns out that new information now says that he may possibly have served before World War 1. The man would have been born in Belfast, Ireland, and emigrated to New Zealand just prior to 1900. There was a thought that he may more likely have been linked to the Boer War, rather than World War 1. However, as I didn't have any knowledge on the subject of military men and uniforms, I thought asking for advice from knowledgeable people would be the best thing for me to do. It now seems that everyone is agreed that he is WW1, and that he served with the New Zealand Rifle Brigade. Checking the NZRB on the internet (Wikipedia), it seems the unit was active between 1915 and 1919. Is this correct? So, the best guess for the man's identity would have been, and still is, Robert Rice. But I can't be sure of this. If this name helps, then great. Even if someone can say "There is no Robert Rice serving with the NZRB", then that helps too. Kind Regards, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 I'm not sure he looks old enough, but a Robert J Rice served in the 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade during the Boer War, gaining a single bar for the Transvaal campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgmcgregor Posted 11 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2011 I'm not sure he looks old enough, but a Robert J Rice served in the 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade during the Boer War, gaining a single bar for the Transvaal campaign. Verrico, Thanks for this. I can hopefully use this to look more into the possibility of the name I have for the man. Regards, Steven (P.S. I give up for the night. I'll be back tomorrow. Don't want to fall asleep on the keyboard.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 I'm not sure he looks old enough, but a Robert J Rice served in the 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade during the Boer War, gaining a single bar for the Transvaal campaign. Hi Louise, I agree that he doesn't look old enough and, more importantly, he doesn't have a QSA medal ribbon. So almost certainly not someone who served in the Boer War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 12 July , 2011 Share Posted 12 July , 2011 The nominal roll for the 22nd Reinforcement is on line via Ancestry and it shows a large New Zealand Rifle Brigade contingent. I have a quick glance but cannot see anyone with the surname Rice. Unfortunately, I am slightly limited time wise this week and have not had a chance to look through for names with Belfast or Northern Irish addresses. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgmcgregor Posted 12 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 July , 2011 Hello all, Once again, thank you to everyone for their efforts, and suggestions. The person who had originally sent me the photo has since been in touch with the National Army Museum of New Zealand - http://www.armymuseum.co.nz/ - I thought I would post their response to the query about the uniformed soldier. Here is what they said... >>> Thank you for your enquiry. The cap badge is that of 'J' Company, 22nd reinforcements of the New Zealand Rifle Brigade. This style of cap badge was an unofficial type worn by personnel of reinforcement units until they joined the regiments on active service to which they had been posted . The shoulder title is actually 22 NZRB (New Zealand Rifle Brigade). The collar badge is also that of the New Zealand Rifle Brigade's Reinforcements. The only odd thing I can see is that the crown on the cap badge is that of the current queen, rather than the style used at the time this was taken; presumably before, or during the First World War, as the uniform dates from around this period. As to why this is, unfortunately, I cannot say. I hope this answers your question in some way. >>> Anyway, this merely confirms what everyone had already said about the identification of the man's unit. It is certain that the only candidate for the identity of the man that I had - Robert Rice - is not the correct one. The photograph is too late a period for it to be him, and so this leaves the question up in the air - who is he? I believe that will only become apparent once more detail about the family line has been researched. The primary question about the identity of the unit has been answered, and the man's identity will hopefully become apparent after more research. Thank you again for all of the fantastic help that you have all been so willing to give. Kind Regards, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 12 July , 2011 Share Posted 12 July , 2011 Anyway, this merely confirms what everyone had already said about the identification of the man's unit. It is certain that the only candidate for the identity of the man that I had - Robert Rice - is not the correct one. The photograph is too late a period for it to be him, and so this leaves the question up in the air - who is he? I believe that will only become apparent once more detail about the family line has been researched. Steven, do you know of the following thread? I was using Google regarding the cap badge, and it has a photograph which is clearly the same chap taken in a very slightly different pose at the same time attributed as "either Charles Collins (Serial No. 38496) or Samuel Collins (Serial No. 38498), both were in the 22nd Reinforcements J Company. The hat badge is a Standard 'type 29' with the centre removed and replaced with J/22." About 1/4 of the way down the page: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ywAiBrBQLR4J:militarianz.freeforums.org/new-zealand-rifle-brigade-badges-and-insignia-database-t1797-15.html+%22new+zealand+rifle+brigade%22+cap+badge+j22&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgmcgregor Posted 12 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 July , 2011 Andrew, That is absolutely fantastic! It is unbelievable what can be found on the internet if one looks hard enough. I will pass on the information to the researcher of the photograph, and see if there are any Collins' in the family history. Kind Regards, Steven (now correctly seated on the chair again, after having fallen off upon reading your post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 12 July , 2011 Share Posted 12 July , 2011 Steven, do you know of the following thread? I was using Google regarding the cap badge, and it has a photograph which is clearly the same chap taken in a very slightly different pose at the same time attributed as "either Charles Collins (Serial No. 38496) or Samuel Collins (Serial No. 38498), both were in the 22nd Reinforcements J Company. The hat badge is a Standard 'type 29' with the centre removed and replaced with J/22." About 1/4 of the way down the page: http://webcache.goog...ww.google.co.uk That's a really amazing find.....! Nice one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATNOMIS Posted 12 July , 2011 Share Posted 12 July , 2011 Steven, do you know of the following thread? I was using Google regarding the cap badge, and it has a photograph which is clearly the same chap taken in a very slightly different pose at the same time attributed as "either Charles Collins (Serial No. 38496) or Samuel Collins (Serial No. 38498), both were in the 22nd Reinforcements J Company. The hat badge is a Standard 'type 29' with the centre removed and replaced with J/22." About 1/4 of the way down the page: http://webcache.goog...ww.google.co.uk He must be the same bloke fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 12 July , 2011 Share Posted 12 July , 2011 Great spot! Excellent! Neil - I was thinking of my brother, who had to grow a beard to get served in a pub. In his thirties... But I agree with your point about no medal ribbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgmcgregor Posted 13 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 July , 2011 Hello all, Just thought you would all like to know that you have made someone very happy. With the information that you have all provided, and the link to the photograph provided by Andrew, we have a positive identification for the man. It would appear that the man's name is Samuel Collins. Obviously more research will hopefully provide an absolute confirmation. Thanks again to everyone, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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