1920's RAF Busby - help please

[fred.xyz]

Have just come across a mint condition RAF busby. Looks like this has just left the museum it's in such great condition. Anyway, just wanted to confirm its correct title, find out if its lambskin and what the fur is derived from. Also an idea about value for insurance as it is such a nice piece.

Regards - Fred

[flintwich]

The only RAF people I've seen wearing anything like this are bandsmen.

[KevinBattle]

Possibly asking the manufacturers would provide the accurate information, period etc etc...

Hobson and Sons

.... but then let us all know what they tell you!!!

[tony paley]

Fred,

The Busby was introduced as part of the full dress uniform for the RAF. in 1921. It was alleged that King George vi was not too keen on the the Busby and it was not re introduced post 1945, although in the late 1970s it became part of the full dress for musicians. My own theory is that it'sorigins was probably the connection with the Royal Engineers in the pre WW1 period. The RE. also wore the Busby in full dress.

tony P

[jdoyle]

Here's Trenchard in 1918 looking resplendent in his busby :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H_M_Trenchard_in_RAF_full_dress.jpg

Air Vice Marshal Lambe with his

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AVM_Lambe.jpg

Would be interested to hear whatever you find about your busby.

[Andrew Upton]

Here's Trenchard in 1918 looking resplendent in his busby :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H_M_Trenchard_in_RAF_full_dress.jpg

Just from the medals he's wearing in that picture it can't be a 1918 - I can see the Star, BWM, VM, etc - very earliest would be 1919, and early 1920's (as attributed) is much more likely (especially if Tony's date of 1921 for the introduction of the busby is correct)..

[scottmarchand]

It is the RAF officers full dress - not technically a busby, or anythign else - wholely unique. I have the full uniform but my helmet is nowhere near as splendid as yous, I am missing the plume. Basically from what I have read about it the helmet was meant to pay homage to the fur lined soft flying caps of the RFC but also have a distincitveness that would seperate it from army style dress, the tunics etc. The RAF full dress was derived from the pre war royal Enginners dress uniform, the womb of the RFC from 1912, but with RAF colour and facings etc. The helmet is leather over cork and the fur is seal skin and the plume is ostrictch feather. All of the military tailors on saville row etc. made them to established patterns, the wealth of any particular officer determined how fine i.e. expensive) a material was used, better leather, best pelts and so forth. While an interesting item, it has historically been shunned by collectors (but it hasn't stopped dealers from asking extortionate prices for them) they turn up on a regular basis on ebay and typically go in the 350 pound range if they are complete for display, up to 500 or 600 if the case is with it, perfect shape - like yours- and with any provenance, as low as 100 pounds if they are missing the plume or are damaged. Dress uniforms of all services do survive in fairly high numbers as tehy were well kept and seldom used, the rarity in the RAF 1921-39 full dress is by virtue of the small size of the RAF in this era. It was retired at the start of WW 2 and never revived, as mentioned above the style was adapted and used for the RAF bandsmen from teh 1950's forward, but with a real Busby' versus the style here.

Now you need the rest of the kit!

[jdoyle]

Just from the medals he's wearing in that picture it can't be a 1918 - I can see the Star, BWM, VM, etc - very earliest would be 1919, and early 1920's (as attributed) is much more likely (especially if Tony's date of 1921 for the introduction of the busby is correct)..

well spotted.

[fred.xyz]

Wow, that is some great information guys, I thank you for your time and effort. I've been collecting for 25 years and have never come across this cap before, and as mentioned, in such fine condition. Well, just goes to show you that when you think you have everything, something else pops up that blows you away. Regards - Fred

[smilingirish]

You might also be interested to know that the nickname for this unusual piece of head-dress was the 'monkey's bum'. Also, beware, the badges are highly reproduced, but from my experience it is pretty easy to tell the difference as the fakes were done 20 years ago, and were pretty crummy quality. Hope that helps.

[leighc]

Have just come across a mint condition RAF busby. Looks like this has just left the museum it's in such great condition. Anyway, just wanted to confirm its correct title, find out if its lambskin and what the fur is derived from. Also an idea about value for insurance as it is such a nice piece.

Regards - Fred

Air Vice-Marshal Sir Philip Game (Royal Artillery, 46th Div, RFC, RAF) was Governor of New South Wales 1930-1935, back in the days when Australian state governors or governors general weren't necessarily Australian born. Apart from being renowned for dismissing NSW Premier Jack Lang in 1932, he was also known for his distinctive uniform worn when undertaking his vice-regal duties.