robgoodfellow Posted 5 July , 2011 Share Posted 5 July , 2011 Good morning Great War Forum Members. I am an Australian-based academic historian researching information about Australian-born Royal Engineer Captain W. Grant Grieve. His co-authored book (with Bernard Newman) - 'Tunnellers: The Story of the Tunnelling Companies' (WW1) is an important work, which is still widely referenced. (Please note that it is reported that Captain W. Grant Grieve first joined a Canadian Tunnelling Company when war broke out before transferring to the Royal Engineers). My interest, however, extends to assisting my good friend Peter Smith, who is Captain Grieves great nephew. (Peter is actually named after him - i.e. Peter Grant Smith – which in itself is evidence of the continuing relevance of WW1 for living generations). I was able to track down a first edition of Tunnellers signed by Captain W. Grant Grieve through a rare books store in the UK (which Peter's sons are going to give him as a surprise birthday present). My questions then relate to the service record of the man, photographs, cross-references to other research and ultimately to what became of Captain W. Grant Grieve (because he stayed in the UK after the War and never returned to Australia); I am interested in where he was buried and if he has UK descendants who might interested in directly contacting the Grieve Australian-related Smiths (Wollongong, New South Wales). Peter intends to visit the UK next year. Many thanks in anticipation. Dr. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelob Posted 6 July , 2011 Share Posted 6 July , 2011 Hi Dr Rob,can you let me know what the W stands for and also if you have a date of birth.There are a lot of Grieve's in the records so it could be a tricky search. Best Wishes,Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 6 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 6 July , 2011 Many thanks Liam. I will check with his great nephew in the morning. It is 11pm here on the East Coast. Many thanks, Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 6 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 6 July , 2011 Dear Liam. Re: Captain W. Grant Grieve - 'W' stands for William. I will have date of birth details within a day or so. Grieve has an elderly nephew in Australia in addition to his great nephew. Regards, Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 7 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 July , 2011 Dear Liam, this morning I e-mailed the Scottish National War Memorial about a promotional flyer I found inside the front cover of the original copy of Grieves' book I obtained from Abebooks (which arrived in Wollongong today). See attached for your interest. More when I get a date of birth and hopefully a service number. Also attached is the signature of the author on the inside cover. Kind regards, Rob. Ps file of the flyer too large to upload. I will try and reduce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 7 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 July , 2011 Liam. Files attached. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelob Posted 7 July , 2011 Share Posted 7 July , 2011 Hi Rob, Thanks for the info,apart from anything else you have piqued my interest in the book!A DOB and service number would really help as there are a lot of Grieves mentioned on the Ancestry UK site. Ideal of course would be the service record (online)but as you are probably aware over 60% of these were destroyed in the WW2.Other options would be the Medal Index Cards (online)and the subsequent rolls which you would have to ask the NArchives to copy and send to you or get someone to research for you but I believe in the case of the RE the rolls don't contain as much info as a man who served in the Infantry say.The other option would be the pension records,so hopefully something can be found. There is info here courtesy of this site about the tunnelers and there is a tantalising refernce to a Canadian contingent but I can't figure out the unit he served in from this info,fascinating as it is http://www.1914-1918.net/tunnelcoyre.htm So if we can get the service no. and DOB I'll have a go and see what I can find. Best Wishes,Liam ps just another thought there could be family forums out there to do with the Grieves where you might find some non military info etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 7 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 July , 2011 Liam, it is interesting that W. Grant Grieves actually presented for WW1 enrolment in Wollongong NSW as below but details dates/age/ ete etc. are incomplete in the record. See below. Date of birth for W. Grant Grieves soon. Many thanks, Rob. Illawarra Volunteers - G -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number Unit Name Rank Enlistment Date RTA Age at Enlistment Occupation Marital Status Locality Death Date Memorial GRIEVE, William G Wollongong Wollongong, WP W. Grant Grieves brother was a one-time Moderator General of the Australian Presbyterian Church 1945-1948. His father and mother were people of high public standing – Police Superintendent and a teacher respectively. THE MODERATORS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH OF AUSTRALIA, 1901-1977 MODERATORS OF THE General Assembly of Australia 1901-1977 Grieve, Alexander Campbell BA (12.6.1884-3.1.1965) b. Wollongong, NSW, s. Thomas Grieve (Police Superintendent) & Margaret nee Maclean; educ Wollongong Superior Public School, U Sydney 1906- 8 (BA), Theol Hall St Andrew’s College, 1909-11. m. 17.4.1912 Beatrice Simpson, 1s, 3 dau. Ord by Presb Moree, to Bingara 2.11.1911-1918; Penshurst 1918-1923; Bathurst 1923-1929; Drummoyne 1929-1954, retd, Emeritus, resided Roseville. Mod NSW 1937, Clerk NSW GA 1942-62, Mod Gen 1945-48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 8 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 8 July , 2011 Sorry that of course should read 'Grieve' - not 'Grieves'. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 10 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2011 Dear Liam. See attached. How can I confirm that Grieve won the Military Cross? Regimental No. 1453. Rob. Liam. Attached. Rob. Grant Grieve 2Lt 180216.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risca_boy Posted 10 July , 2011 Share Posted 10 July , 2011 Dr Rob I found these deaths for a William G Grieve Between Apr - Jun 1950 Age 84 Middlesex 5f 55 Between Jan - Mar 1953 Age 65 Newton A 7a 625 The information after the ages refer to the reference numbers which need to be quoted if ordering the death certificate. Certificates can be ordered here. http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp There are other William Grieve's listed but would need the DOB to tie them in. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 10 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2011 Many thanks Steve. I am working on a DOB for Grieve - will get back to you soon. It is however likely to be Newtown because he was last reported by his Australian relatives to be in living in Wales. I wonder if there is a family history centre in Newtown or if Grieve is still remembered in the community? Many thanks, Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risca_boy Posted 10 July , 2011 Share Posted 10 July , 2011 Dr Rob Newton A is actually Newton Abbott, which is in the Teignbridge District of Devon, so a good way from Wales. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 10 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2011 Thanks Steve. A dead end. I'll keep gathering information to see if I can make a link. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelob Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Hi Rob, Thanks for the info. The MIC records his 1915 Star and the corresponding roll cc or gg 42b pg23 which may contain some more info,likewise the other reference CC120b 14.You can ask the NA to copy these and send them on to you,there is no guarantee they will contain more info but they might do.The word on the right of the MIC is I think Comm for commissioned and the KE Horse were formed in 1901 in London from Colonial volunteers. I can't see in the London Gazette or Wiki that he was awarded the MC,the Gazette only confirms his promotion to 2 Lieut. All you can do is dig at the medal rolls and if possible the DOB might enable more info on his post war life. Best Wishes,Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelob Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Hi Rob, another thought is to construct a mini family tree on Ancestry UK and put as much info in as you have and Ancestry will automatically search for millions of reords to find a match and (like I was ecently) be lucky enough to come across someone working on the same tree maybe from a different direction.I think its well worth a try. best/Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 11 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Thanks Liam, good advice. I was thinking of taking out an annual subscription anyway. Any suggestions on tracking down the citation for the Military Cross for Grieves? It is interesting that his family report "that he joined up during a walking tour of Ireland in 1915". (And "he was a great traveller like his great great uncle - Shoalhaven original colonial land grant recipient Alexander Graham Berry") I am trying to track down his mining experience in the Illawarra prior to the War. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelob Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Hi Rob, you can take a 14 day free trial and do your tree in that time and see what happens.can you let me know what makes you think he received the MC? the London Gazette page you linked to is only to confirm his promotion to 2 Lieutenant. Interesting about Ireland,that's where I live and I am researching my GF who joined the war in Dec 1915. Best Wishes,Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgoodfellow Posted 11 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Thanks Liam. FYI a branch of my family - the 'Creans' come from Ireland via Canada. My Great Grand grandfather Roy Crean was a fireman who died in the line of duty in Hamilton Ontario. About the MC for Grieve - the Australia family report this. So far their information has been accurate. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelob Posted 11 July , 2011 Share Posted 11 July , 2011 Rob,I'm probably being a party pooper here but another thing that may indicate he didn't get the MC is the fact that when Tunnellers was first pub in 1936 he is not described on the dust jacket as Grieve MC which would have been a selling point I would have felt especially as the foreward by Harvey lists his medal entitlements. Bar of course he won an MC later than 1936. All speculative of course and I'd like to be wrong......I do hope we can find the info you need. Best Wishes,Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Hipkin Posted 7 November , 2011 Share Posted 7 November , 2011 Greetings All, Bernard Newman, who co-authored Tunnellers, was my grandfather. I'd be delighted to answer any questions, and get any new info on my grandfather He has his own thread on Great War Forum Bernard Newman And I have started a research & archive project here - Bernard Newman Research & Archive Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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