Medals issued

[rumplestiltskin]

Afternoon when a soldiers was KIA how long roughly did it take for his medals to be issued to his next of kin,and if returned what normally happened to them.

regards Terry.

[Chris_Baker]

Most 1914 and 1914-15 Stars were sent in 1919. Most British War and Victory Medals in 1921. This applies regardless of whether the man died or survived the war. The medals were mostly sent by post, to the man himself or his NOK.

[rumplestiltskin]

thanks Chris a mine of information

[rumplestiltskin]

Why were stars not issued throughout the war they stopped in 1915 ?

[headgardener]

Why were stars not issued throughout the war they stopped in 1915 ?

It wasn't that stars were 'stopped' in 1915; the last star wasn't a 1915 star, it was a 1914-15 star. They were designed to differentiate the men who served in the earliest campaigns of the war from the rest.

The 1914 star was issued in order to recognize the service of the original members of the BEF, the 'Old Contemptibles'.

It was then felt that this created a rather uneven view of the conflict in that it failed to recognize RN personnel who had been fighting and dying since the very first days of the war (some weeks before the first members of the BEF had fired a shot). It also didn't account for some 'old army' battalions who had missed out on account of their regiments having been in India or elsewhere at the time of the outbreak of war. And it missed out those men who had fought in 1914 in Africa, or in 1915 at Gallipoli or Egypt, etc.

So a 1914-15 star (NOT a 1915 star) was introduced in recognition of their service.

I assume that it was felt that no significant 'new' theatres (apart from Russia) opened up after 1915, so there would be no need for further awards beyond the standard BW&VM's.

[Andrew Upton]

I assume that it was felt that no significant 'new' theatres (apart from Russia) opened up after 1915, so there would be no need for further awards beyond the standard BW&VM's.

That's a rather misleading statement - the various other theatres and major battles were intended to be represented as clasps on the BWM, as they had been on the QSA and KSA for the Boer War. However so many suggestions were received that it became too complicated to implement and was eventually dropped on cost grounds. Those for the RN were approved however (but not officially issued with the full sized medals), and so miniatures are sometimes seen which have them for wear by those who were entitled.

[headgardener]

That's a rather misleading statement

Really? I know about the proposed BWM clasps, the question was about the issue of subsequent stars.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

The Stars & the Territorial Force War Medal were in the most basic form instituted to reward those already serving,recalled from the Reserve,& Volunteers from the outbreak of War in August 1914,It was felt in some circles that the War Medal was "enough" {The Allied Victory Medal being "open to all entitled",as a commemorative medal for the cessation of Hostilities}for those who saw subsequent active service post the end of December 1915.as most were by then Conscripted men rather than Volunteers

[Andrew Upton]

Really? I know about the proposed BWM clasps, the question was about the issue of subsequent stars.

Yes really, hence my statement. I suspect the original question asker was not aware, and I was therefore suprised you didn't mention it. "Subsequent stars" would have been covered by the clasps that had been intended. Great provision to recognize the wide scope of individual service in the medals issued had been the aim, the fact that it didn't exactly go to plan is not a poor reflection on the Government which was trying its best under difficult circumstances in a post-war world that had other more important matters to deal with.

[headgardener]

Yes really, hence my statement. I suspect the original question asker was not aware, and I was therefore suprised you didn't mention it.

Both our answers are technically correct and aren't contradictory or misleading. I'd say that Harry has provided the definitive answer to the original question (particularly by reference to the TFWM).

Hopefully we've both learned something....!

[Andrew Upton]

I'd say that Harry has provided the definitive answer to the original question (particularly by reference to the TFWM).

Yes, and reinforces my point - the BWM could have been considered enough with the clasps, as at a glance at the actual medal (in the case of those issued to the Navy) one could have seen that the wearer had served in the Narrow Seas, or the North Sea, or Heligoland 28 Aug 14, or the Falkland Islands 8 Dec 1914, or Konigsberg July 1915, or the Mediterranean 1915, or Dogger Bank 24 Jan 1915, or Jutland 31 May 1916, or the Belgian Coast, or Zeebrugge, or Ostend, or the Dardanelles, or the Eastern Baltic 1918-19, or Baltic 1918, or Gallipoli, or German East Africa, or Submarines, or etc etc, and many combinations thereof. It was a great shame it never was properly implemented, as I personally consider the QSA/KSA design with clasps the height of medal design, and clasps on the BWM would only have been an improvement to an already excellent design.

[rumplestiltskin]

Thanks for that one more point,so if a soldier who gained a 1914-15 star and then went on to to fight at say Somme and Cambrai,would clasps be added to the ribbon? or to the BWM,and what happened to them if they were returned how long were they kept if not claimed.

[headgardener]

Thanks for that one more point,so if a soldier who gained a 1914-15 star and then went on to to fight at say Somme and Cambrai,would clasps be added to the ribbon? or to the BWM,and what happened to them if they were returned how long were they kept if not claimed.

No, sorry if Andrew's post has confused matters; clasps for various campaigns and battles were proposed but they never got past the planning stage.

A man would receive a 1914 star for service with the BEF between the outbreak of war (August 1914) to 22nd Nov 1914.

A 1914-15 star would be issued in 2 instances; to a man or woman serving in France or Belgium from 23rd Nov 1914 to 31st Dec 1915, or to a man or woman serving in a theatre of war other than France or Belgium at any time between the outbreak of war and 31st Dec 1915. Places like Malta and India didn't count as theatres of war, so anyone serving in those places didn't qualify for 1914-15 stars (there were a few exceptions to this rule, but I won't confuse matters further by trying to explain them).

As for how long medals were kept; officers had to claim their medals, so if no claim was made no medal(s) would be produced. O/R's medals were issued automatically, but many men moved house or died before their medals were issued, so because they were sent by registered post and therefore had to be signed for, the medals might end up being returned to the Army Medal Office. I believe that they were supposed to be kept for 10 years before being scrapped, but most medal index cards that I've come across show undelivered medals being scrapped in about the mid-1920's.

I hope that made sense....!

[rumplestiltskin]

Thanks very much that as made it clear,i can imagine many medals were not signed for

Regards Terry.

No, sorry if Andrew's post has confused matters; clasps for various campaigns and battles were proposed but they never got past the planning stage.

A man would receive a 1914 star for service with the BEF between the outbreak of war (August 1914) to 22nd Nov 1914.

A 1914-15 star would be issued in 2 instances; to a man or woman serving in France or Belgium from 23rd Nov 1914 to 31st Dec 1915, or to a man or woman serving in a theatre of war other than France or Belgium at any time between the outbreak of war and 31st Dec 1915. Places like Malta and India didn't count as theatres of war, so anyone serving in those places didn't qualify for 1914-15 stars (there were a few exceptions to this rule, but I won't confuse matters further by trying to explain them).

As for how long medals were kept; officers had to claim their medals, so if no claim was made no medal(s) would be produced. O/R's medals were issued automatically, but many men moved house or died before their medals were issued, so because they were sent by registered post and therefore had to be signed for, the medals might end up being returned to the Army Medal Office. I believe that they were supposed to be kept for 10 years before being scrapped, but most medal index cards that I've come across show undelivered medals being scrapped in about the mid-1920's.

I hope that made sense....!

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

With regard to Medals sent but undelivered/undeliverable Usually this would be anotated on the MiC, [ie rtd/****/*** or similar code on the card]Many medals returned initially would have been claimed later as things "sorted out" post war & re & initial issues were being made until the 1980s,when the issue of GWM was ended in the UK {I believe Commonwealth countries continued to issue on a limited scale past the IIRC}

[Andrew Upton]

No, sorry if Andrew's post has confused matters; clasps for various campaigns and battles were proposed but they never got past the planning stage.

Exactly as I said in my original post... - "the various other theatres and major battles were intended to be represented as clasps on the BWM, as they had been on the QSA and KSA for the Boer War. However so many suggestions were received that it became too complicated to implement and was eventually dropped on cost grounds", also my subsequent repetition of "intended" in reference to the clasps in later posts, as well as "never properly implemented". Not sure how I could have made made that any less confusing...