More Liverpool Pals Badges

[spiker556]

Hi All, I am helping a friend who has inherited a collection of medals and badges- i am ok on medals but not too hot on badges. The following are Liverpool pals badges- if anyone can suggest a realistic price she would be grateful.

King’s Liverpool “Pals” 17/20 Bn HM Silver capbadge. With silver splitpin. Mint. £175-350

The silver cap badge of the 17th, 18th, 19th & 20th Battalion, Liverpool Regiment was presented to every man who enlisted prior to 16 October 1914. These battalions were formed at the behest of Lord Derby, and the badge comprising an eagle and child with the motto ‘Sans Changer’ was representative of his family crest.

King’s Liverpool “Pals” 17/20 Bn Gilt capbadge. Pin back.

King’s Liverpool “Pals” 17/20 Bn heavy bronze. Pin back.

King’s Liverpool “Pals” 17/20 Bn heavy bronze. (Missing pin back.)

King’s Liverpool “Pals” 17/20 Bn brass. Slider.

[Old Owl]

Hi All, I am helping a friend who has inherited a collection of medals and badges- i am ok on medals but not too hot on badges. The following are Liverpool pals badges- if anyone can suggest a realistic price she would be grateful.

King's Liverpool "Pals" 17/20 Bn HM Silver capbadge. With silver splitpin. Mint. £175-350

The silver cap badge of the 17th, 18th, 19th & 20th Battalion, Liverpool Regiment was presented to every man who enlisted prior to 16 October 1914. These battalions were formed at the behest of Lord Derby, and the badge comprising an eagle and child with the motto 'Sans Changer' was representative of his family crest.

King's Liverpool "Pals" 17/20 Bn Gilt capbadge. Pin back.

King's Liverpool "Pals" 17/20 Bn heavy bronze. Pin back.

King's Liverpool "Pals" 17/20 Bn heavy bronze. (Missing pin back.)

King's Liverpool "Pals" 17/20 Bn brass. Slider.

Hi Spiker,

I am not too good on the value of badges, although I suspect that £175 may be a realistic price for the HM Silver one. Incidentally I believe that the bird depicted on the badge is the 'Liver Bird' and not an eagle.

The other badges will be devalued considerably if they are 'Pin Back', as these could be later additions ie. not the original fixings, you really need to post photos in order to get a proper response.

Hope this helps,

Robert

P.S. You could try the British Badge Forum

[CarylW]

...... Incidentally I believe that the bird depicted on the badge is the 'Liver Bird' and not an eagle.

I understand it is the 'eagle and child' Stanley crest of Lord Derby

Caryl

[Old Owl]

I understand it is the 'eagle and child' Stanley crest of Lord Derby

Caryl

Whoops!

Robert

[CarylW]

Whoops!

Robert

I don't know a thing about cap badges but just happen to know that particular one!

Caryl

[bruce]

Up here, there are a number of pubs named the Eagle and Child, or else The Derby Arms, or the Stanley Arms, most of which have the family crest on the pub sign.

I have been told that "over there" the badge was also described as the Bustard and bast*rd, but I haven't found documentary evidence for that!

Bruce

[daggers]

Another nickname is 'bird and babby' - there is a well-known legend or two about the origin of the crest.

D

[JulianB]

Getting back to the original question, I think if the slver one is assayed in Chester rather than London, it is worth a tad more.

I do not know what you mean by 'gilt'.

It also appears that the OR version with a slider (auth mid 1917) is a little scarcer than the "solid" version with two lugs (auth late 1915). There are other variations too.

Regarding the crest, the heraldic description is

“On a chapeau gules, turned up ermine, an eagle, wings extended, or, preying on a child proper, swaddled gules, in a cradle laced or.”

The added scroll below carries the family motto.