jwp2007 Posted 17 June , 2011 Share Posted 17 June , 2011 some time ago an elderly relative gave me a bag containing military buttons and shoulder titles, the ones i know seem to date from ww1, leeds pals, ASC, there is one similar in style to territorial ones,but instead of a T this has the letter C over the number 6 over the curved wriding, could anyone tell me does the c indicate cadet or company ?, many thanks, john. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 June , 2011 Share Posted 17 June , 2011 some time ago an elderly relative gave me a bag containing military buttons and shoulder titles, the ones i know seem to date from ww1, leeds pals, ASC, there is one similar in style to territorial ones,but instead of a T this has the letter C over the number 6 over the curved wriding, could anyone tell me does the c indicate cadet or company ?, many thanks, john. It means Cadets John. Usually as potential officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 17 June , 2011 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2011 many thanks for the very quick reply !,much appreciated, regards, john. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 18 June , 2011 Share Posted 18 June , 2011 If the title is C/6/W.Riding it is for the 6th Cadet Battalion (this was not an officers training unit ). It is not mentioned in Westlakes book "Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles " and is therefore reasonably scarce. P.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 June , 2011 Share Posted 18 June , 2011 If the title is C/6/W.Riding it is for the 6th Cadet Battalion (this was not an officers training unit ). It is not mentioned in Westlakes book "Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles " and is therefore reasonably scarce. P.B. Thanks for confirming that P.B. Cadet battalions seem quiet obscure and I would love to know more about them. I know that there were officer cadet units at several of the universities and of course the Innes of Court and Artists Rifles ran similar units I believe. What then were the other cadets units for like C/6/W.Riding, do you know, and how many other such cadet units were there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 18 June , 2011 Share Posted 18 June , 2011 A lot of Regiments had cadet battalions,rather like the current ACF, they were not specifically a WW1 idea, the Kings Liverpools had a cadet battalion formed in 1890 ( By 1911 it was known as 1st Territorial Cadet Battalion,The Kings (Lpool Regt.). I have an officers commission for that battalion dated 1903. Probably the best book for checking on the units that existed is "A Register of Territorial Force Cadet Units " by Ray Westlake. The book also shows affiliations- there is a reference in the book to the West Riding Regt,6th Cadet Battalion, know as the Settle Cadet Battalion,the unit was recognised on 1/4/1910 and affiliated to the 6th Bn.Duke of Wellingtons Regt and redesignated 6th Duke of Wellingtons ( West Riding ) Cadet Bn by AO 475/15 Rather like the VTC`s,cadet units seemed to have been rather neglected by those interested in military history in the past. P.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 18 June , 2011 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2011 many thanks for all the additional information,i live just 3 miles from settle so this would tie in,could this possibly be linked to the public school at giggleswick (less than a mile from settle ?),they still have a cadet force, visited by prince andrew earlier this month, kind regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 18 June , 2011 Share Posted 18 June , 2011 John, No Giggleswick school had an Officers Training Corps which was nothing to do with the Cadets we are talking about. After some changes in title school units are now know as Combined Cadet Force units. As you probably know Giggleswick School OTC wore as a cap badge the seal of the school with the name of the contingent below and in fact their present badge may still be the same but with CCF instead of OTC on the scroll. P.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 18 June , 2011 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2011 P.B., thank you for your reply, good to know a local connection to this badge,is westlake's book you mentioned still avaliable to buy ?, regards, john. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 19 June , 2011 Share Posted 19 June , 2011 John, I think the book is long out of print,the best place to try might be Abebooks. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 19 June , 2011 Share Posted 19 June , 2011 A lot of Regiments had cadet battalions,rather like the current ACF, they were not specifically a WW1 idea, the Kings Liverpools had a cadet battalion formed in 1890 ( By 1911 it was known as 1st Territorial Cadet Battalion,The Kings (Lpool Regt.). I have an officers commission for that battalion dated 1903. Probably the best book for checking on the units that existed is "A Register of Territorial Force Cadet Units " by Ray Westlake. The book also shows affiliations- there is a reference in the book to the West Riding Regt,6th Cadet Battalion, know as the Settle Cadet Battalion,the unit was recognised on 1/4/1910 and affiliated to the 6th Bn.Duke of Wellingtons Regt and redesignated 6th Duke of Wellingtons ( West Riding ) Cadet Bn by AO 475/15 Rather like the VTC`s,cadet units seemed to have been rather neglected by those interested in military history in the past. P.B. Like the 1916 Volunteer Force, they also produced Cadet Lists, which apart from the obvious and giving lists of Cadet Officers, also gave you a list of Cadet Battalions, then affiliated to Territorial units. As PB has already pointed out another good source is infact Army Orders, with the recognition dates & affiliated units, and if I remember correctly all of the VF Cadet units in existence in 1918, were subsequently transferred across as Territorial Cadets, is they so wished and units were willing to adopt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 19 June , 2011 Share Posted 19 June , 2011 Thanks for confirming that P.B. Cadet battalions seem quiet obscure and I would love to know more about them. I know that there were officer cadet units at several of the universities and of course the Innes of Court and Artists Rifles ran similar units I believe. What then were the other cadets units for like C/6/W.Riding, do you know, and how many other such cadet units were there? In the early 80's there was a spate of publications, mainly by Ray, which covered our more obscure units, however these have long since been out of print and in some cases you may have to dig deep to purchase copies. The VTC/VF has to this day never been really covered although I believe a book called "Defending Albion" covers them in probably more detail than ever, but again you have to pay out. One of the most sort after books regarding the pre-1908 Volunteer Force - "Riflemen Form", was at one time edging towards nearly £100 for a first print edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 19 June , 2011 Share Posted 19 June , 2011 I did well then to buy a paperback reprint of Riflemen Form for 50p last week. it is in good condition too. at the moment it sits in the waiting to be read pile. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 19 June , 2011 Share Posted 19 June , 2011 There is another book called "The History of the Volunteer Infantry" by Robert Potter Berry,my copy has a Library Plate for George A Brown,an inpressed mark showing at one time it belonged to Captain Estes.G.Hawk ( Ret ) of Washington and finally a rubber stamp mark saying "The property of the United Services institute of Vancover" so it has certainly been around and I must be at least the fourth owner. The book was published in 1903 and whilst as the title suggests it deals with the whole of the Volunteer Infantry, it goes into considerable detail regarding the organisation and regulations governing the post 1859 Volunteers but with particular emphasis on the Hudderfield Volunteers which I suppose is not surprising as the author was a lieutenant in the 6th West Yorkshire Rifle Volunteers. P.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 19 June , 2011 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2011 John, I think the book is long out of print,the best place to try might be Abebooks. Peter [/quote many thanks for all additional info,much appreciated, regards, john. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpacarr Posted 24 June , 2011 Share Posted 24 June , 2011 John, No Giggleswick school had an Officers Training Corps which was nothing to do with the Cadets we are talking about. After some changes in title school units are now know as Combined Cadet Force units. As you probably know Giggleswick School OTC wore as a cap badge the seal of the school with the name of the contingent below and in fact their present badge may still be the same but with CCF instead of OTC on the scroll. P.B. Just a point about the capbadges worn by the Giggleswick O.T.C. P.B. is right that the school had it`s own capbadge with the schools emblem on it and its own shoulder titles with Giggleswick school and in the badge middle O.T.C. Around 1942 the name O.T.C.was changed to J.T.C.or Junior Training Corps, and that made the schools old badges obsolete as they had the old otc initials on them. Also around that time the firm of Marshall`s in Birmingham was destroyed in a bombing raid and all the dies etc for making the schools badges were lost. The school at that time was already affiliated to the Duke of Wellingtons Regiment so it made ecconomic sense to become badged to the regiment thus saving the very high costs of having new dies made. Sorry the photo of the capbadge is not brilliant but the Giggleswick capbadge I own is very rubbed by over polishing etc,but it is at least ok until a better one turns up. If anyone does have any items badges or photo`s in fact anything I would be very interested in aquiring them from you please do pm me, Grandpacarr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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