POW camp Kinlochleven

[kinloch]

Hi

I live in the Highlands about 20 miles south of Fort William.

My wife and I are interested in local history.

We have now turned our attention to the WW! POW camp about 2 miles east of the village of kinlochleven.

We have amassed alot of info but feel that there is still much to be gleaned from various sources.

Any help or infomation would be appreciated.

[Doug Johnson]

Hi,

Information on camps in Britain is generally a lot less available than the German counterparts. As far as Kinlochleven is concerned there are only two inspection reports that I am aware of in WO383 and not a lot else. It was a working camp and therefore not a particularly important camp. I would suspect that there is more information available in the local papers than anywhere else and you have probably already tapped that source. I think the only 'recent' monograph on any camp in Britain at Leigh drew most of the information from newspapers. I have not checked Graham Mark's book to see if he included Kinlochleven amongst the camps he expanded upon. If you have not got access to a copy and nobody else checks for you I will have a root round for my copy.

If it is your intention to publish anything on the camp then please let us know as there is a lack of published info on British camps and many of us would be interested. Occasionally there is something published in some obscure local history magazine which passes us by which is a bit frustrating.

Doug

[Carmania]

It was established on 11 August 1916 as a working camp, its parent being the Stobs camp. In September 1916 it was under the command of Major A B Barnard C.I.E. It was visited on 15 September 1916 by a Mr E G Lowry from the US embassy and I can send you a copy of his five page report if you want, send me a PM with your email address.

Aled

[kinloch]

Hi Doug.

Thanks for reply. My wife actual did a project for a course and all the info is lodged with the Highland Region Archaeological Department (Part of the planning department). I am just rewriting for our local information centre and hope to get more information to put in.

What is Graham Marks' book called as the local library may have a copy.

You are quite welcomed to have what info I have.

Bob

Hi,

Information on camps in Britain is generally a lot less available than the German counterparts. As far as Kinlochleven is concerned there are only two inspection reports that I am aware of in WO383 and not a lot else. It was a working camp and therefore not a particularly important camp. I would suspect that there is more information available in the local papers than anywhere else and you have probably already tapped that source. I think the only 'recent' monograph on any camp in Britain at Leigh drew most of the information from newspapers. I have not checked Graham Mark's book to see if he included Kinlochleven amongst the camps he expanded upon. If you have not got access to a copy and nobody else checks for you I will have a root round for my copy.

If it is your intention to publish anything on the camp then please let us know as there is a lack of published info on British camps and many of us would be interested. Occasionally there is something published in some obscure local history magazine which passes us by which is a bit frustrating.

Doug

[kinloch]

Hi Aled

Thanks for replying. We have the 1916 report by MR E. G. Lowery, also the Swiss Legation report of 1917 When the Camp Commandant was a Major D. Ashby, unit unknow.

What does C.I.E stand for?

Most of the info we have has been lodged with the Highland Region Archaeology Department (part of planning)

Bob

Thanks for your reply

It was established on 11 August 1916 as a working camp, its parent being the Stobs camp. In September 1916 it was under the command of Major A B Barnard C.I.E. It was visited on 15 September 1916 by a Mr E G Lowry from the US embassy and I can send you a copy of his five page report if you want, send me a PM with your email address.

Aled

[kinloch]

Aled

Now trying to get info from Balfour Beatty the consruction people as the camp work force was used in the construction of a pipe line from Loch Eilde Mor to the Black water reservoir to increase the capacity for hydroelectricity for the increased production of Aluminium form the local smelter.

Bob

It was established on 11 August 1916 as a working camp, its parent being the Stobs camp. In September 1916 it was under the command of Major A B Barnard C.I.E. It was visited on 15 September 1916 by a Mr E G Lowry from the US embassy and I can send you a copy of his five page report if you want, send me a PM with your email address.

Aled

[Carmania]

What does C.I.E stand for?

Bob

Bob

He was a Companion of The Most Eminent Order of The Indian Empire and the award appears in the London Gazette of 2nd January 1911. His full name was Andrew Bigoe Barnard and a search of the web will provide some information about him.

Aled

[mbriscoe]

Don't know uif you have seen but a plan of the Kinlochleven camp has been put on MyCanmore.

I have been sent some other copies of plans and a couple of pictures of the Caolasnacon camp by someone in Kinlochleven. Send me a direct message with your EMail and I can put you in touch.

Don't know if you aware but two prisoners died at the Kinlochleven camp. One in 1916 when the camp was wrecked by a stormand he was hit on the head by a piece of wood. The other was shot whilst trying to escape.

Now wondering if any died at Caolasnacon?

By the way I took some pictures of the bridge built by the POWs last week and have suggested that a record is placed on Canmore for it, also the UKNIWM have said they will add it to their list of war memorials.

MB

[Guest CAM1953]

Happy New Year all. This is an interesting forum, and I wanted to tell you of a project I've been working on that's related to the discussion.

I bought an oil painting at a flea market (I live and work in Germany) of a forested cut being cleared of trees below a very craggy mountain with a mountain stream rushing down through the cut. On the back side of the painting there were two areas that had writing in alt Deutsche (old German) that is really difficult to decipher. Anyway after a lot of effort, I identified the title - Krater with Forest Chapel. The rest I've been struggling with but could piece together that the painting was painted between 1914-1916, and the painter had been a captive in Scotland. I'm a WWI studier, but hadn't heard of POWs in Scotland - hense my finding this web site. In my search of mountainous areas in Scotland, I found Ben Nevis - it just happens to be the mountain in the painting. It's been fun trying to use clues and solving the mystery. He eventually returned to Germany and passed away at the age of 60. What I don't know is what he would have been doing in that area. Cutting down trees? The closest camp that I could find on the map of camps would have been Kinlochleven, I think. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Carol

[Bernard_Lewis]

I may be wrong but Kinlochleven was, I think, an internment camp for Germans living in Britain in August 1914.

Bernard

[MBrockway]

Don't know uif you have seen but a plan of the Kinlochleven camp has been put on MyCanmore.

I have been sent some other copies of plans and a couple of pictures of the Caolasnacon camp by someone in Kinlochleven. Send me a direct message with your EMail and I can put you in touch.

Don't know if you aware but two prisoners died at the Kinlochleven camp. One in 1916 when the camp was wrecked by a stormand he was hit on the head by a piece of wood. The other was shot whilst trying to escape.

Now wondering if any died at Caolasnacon?

By the way I took some pictures of the bridge built by the POWs last week and have suggested that a record is placed on Canmore for it, also the UKNIWM have said they will add it to their list of war memorials.

MB

Your NGR of NN 16758 61693 plots to a point just up the shore of Loch Leven about 100m north of the road and 200m from the two nearest bridges.

Could you check your grid ref?

[MBrockway]

Aled

Now trying to get info from Balfour Beatty the consruction people as the camp work force was used in the construction of a pipe line from Loch Eilde Mor to the Black water reservoir to increase the capacity for hydroelectricity for the increased production of Aluminium form the local smelter.

Bob

Bob,

This reference may interest you ...

"The First World War brought about a massive rise in the demand for aluminium and the Blackwater Reservoir had to be expanded to cope with the extra electricity requirement. Five hundred British troops and 1,200 German prisoners of war were brought in to build a five-mile aqueduct to lead water from Loch Eilde Mhor into the Blackwater."

James Miller The Dam Builders - Power from the Glens (Birlinn, Edinburgh, 2002) p.16

The book covers the various hydro electric schemes very well, but sadly there is little on the scheme to power the aluminium smelters at Fort William and Kinlochleven.

Happy New Year all. This is an interesting forum, and I wanted to tell you of a project I've been working on that's related to the discussion.

I bought an oil painting at a flea market (I live and work in Germany) of a forested cut being cleared of trees below a very craggy mountain with a mountain stream rushing down through the cut. On the back side of the painting there were two areas that had writing in alt Deutsche (old German) that is really difficult to decipher. Anyway after a lot of effort, I identified the title - Krater with Forest Chapel. The rest I've been struggling with but could piece together that the painting was painted between 1914-1916, and the painter had been a captive in Scotland. I'm a WWI studier, but hadn't heard of POWs in Scotland - hense my finding this web site. In my search of mountainous areas in Scotland, I found Ben Nevis - it just happens to be the mountain in the painting. It's been fun trying to use clues and solving the mystery. He eventually returned to Germany and passed away at the age of 60. What I don't know is what he would have been doing in that area. Cutting down trees? The closest camp that I could find on the map of camps would have been Kinlochleven, I think. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Carol

Any chance you could post an image of the picture, then we can confirm that the view is of Ben Nevis?

[mbriscoe]

Your NGR of NN 16758 61693 plots to a point just up the shore of Loch Leven about 100m north of the road and 200m from the two nearest bridges.

Could you check your grid ref?

Must have transcribed wrong, the one used on Canmore is correct.

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/320917/details/kinlochleven+allt+criche/

[mbriscoe]

I may be wrong but Kinlochleven was, I think, an internment camp for Germans living in Britain in August 1914.

Bernard

I have not seen any original records but the local museum have quite a lot on the two camps and everything points to the one at Kinlochleven being used for Labour on the construction of the hydro scheme and, along with the other camp, th construction of the road.

[mbriscoe]

Happy New Year all. This is an interesting forum, and I wanted to tell you of a project I've been working on that's related to the discussion.

I bought an oil painting at a flea market (I live and work in Germany) of a forested cut being cleared of trees below a very craggy mountain with a mountain stream rushing down through the cut. On the back side of the painting there were two areas that had writing in alt Deutsche (old German) that is really difficult to decipher. Anyway after a lot of effort, I identified the title - Krater with Forest Chapel. The rest I've been struggling with but could piece together that the painting was painted between 1914-1916, and the painter had been a captive in Scotland. I'm a WWI studier, but hadn't heard of POWs in Scotland - hense my finding this web site. In my search of mountainous areas in Scotland, I found Ben Nevis - it just happens to be the mountain in the painting. It's been fun trying to use clues and solving the mystery. He eventually returned to Germany and passed away at the age of 60. What I don't know is what he would have been doing in that area. Cutting down trees? The closest camp that I could find on the map of camps would have been Kinlochleven, I think. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Carol

I can't think of any other German POW camps in the area or Northern Highlands. The area of North of Fort WIlliam was a Restricted Area in both WWI and WWII so they might not have wanted enemy POWs around.

There were forestry camps in both WWI and WWII but they were manned by various Commonwealth citizens but mainly Canadian and Newfoundlanders as well as a few other countries.

But so little is know that it is possible!

If you would like to send a photograph of the painting then I can see if the local paper will publish it, someone might recognise some features though painters tend to be quite free and easy with details and don't bother too much with accuracy!

You could also add to the Royal Commission of Ancient and Historic Monuments of Scotland's record for the camp at KInlochleven. Even if it is not of there, it gets a copy f the painting in a public record. You just need to register then upload the image.

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/120445/details/kinlochleven/

[Bernard_Lewis]

Sorry, mixing up me camps. Ignore my earlier post.

Bernard

[MBrockway]

Must have transcribed wrong, the one used on Canmore is correct.

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/320917/details/kinlochleven+allt+criche/

Yep - that (NN 16951 61559) plots to a likely looking bridge in the right place! Thanks!

[MBrockway]

If you would like to send a photograph of the painting then I can see if the local paper will publish it, someone might recognise some features though painters tend to be quite free and easy with details and don't bother too much with accuracy!

I am very familiar with the mountains of Lochaber - so (artistic variations aside) I can probably identify the location if I get to see the painting ;-)

[mbriscoe]

I am very familiar with the mountains of Lochaber - so (artistic variations aside) I can probably identify the location if I get to see the painting ;-)

It is quite possible the artist just lifted a mountain scene from a book or postcard to use as a background.

[kinloch]

Have had other things on the go and have not been back for a while.

It was me that posted Kinlochleven POW camp plans and photographs on Cranmore.

Attached here is a post card of POW camp at Caolas-na-con in 1918.

For mbriscoe.

Can you let me know the scouce of the prisoner from Kinlochleven POW camp who was shot trying to escape. In all the years my wife and I have returned to this subject we have never found any reference to an escapee being killed, if fact we have found no record of any escapees at all.

Many died in the flue epidemic of 1918 and were buried in Duror Cemetry and later (1960s) re-interred in the War Cementry at Cannock Chase.

If people want to contact me direct

rdherbert@aol.com

[GraemeClarke]

Morning Bob

Would you have a list of names, per chance, of the men who died of the flu and were then reineterred at Cannock Chase ??

Regards,

Graeme

[mbriscoe]

Have had other things on the go and have not been back for a while.

It was me that posted Kinlochleven POW camp plans and photographs on Cranmore.

Attached here is a post card of POW camp at Caolas-na-con in 1918.

For mbriscoe.

Can you let me know the scouce of the prisoner from Kinlochleven POW camp who was shot trying to escape. In all the years my wife and I have returned to this subject we have never found any reference to an escapee being killed, if fact we have found no record of any escapees at all.

Many died in the flue epidemic of 1918 and were buried in Duror Cemetry and later (1960s) re-interred in the War Cementry at Cannock Chase.

If people want to contact me direct

rdherbert@aol.com

Lochaber Archive has quite a number of police records, one is a record book of Accidents, Sudden Deaths, Bodies found etc (or something like that - going from memory). I was looking up a couple of deaths of servicemen working on the canal and also notice a couple of bodies found on the Small Isles from the HMS Otranto. So I had a look for anything else in WWI and found the two deaths in Kinlochleven recorded. I might have photocopies them but not sure. I don't think they had any PC's pocket books for that area.

I don't remember any mention of deaths from flu but perhaps the police would not have been involved.

I did wonder about the other camp at Caolasnacon but that was in Argyll and Lochaber Archive don't have anything for there and nothing in the catalogue at Lochgilphead as far as I can see. Apparently someone at the house by Caolasnacon has been researching that camp.

There was something on TV recently that mentioned a camp in WWI for Conscientious Objectors near Ballachulish or Glencoe which could fit Caolasnacon but don't know whether it was there or somewhere else..

[kinloch]

POW Camp at Caolas-na-con

Opened in 1917 for COs to build the 'high Road'. Shut because building work was unsatisfactory. Reopened as a POW camp.

Slight confusions, also used for civilian internees of 'professional status' and german officers.

urban myth says thatManny Shinwell was interred there. I have his biography and he was working for the government in a reserved occupation.

camp administered from Stobs Camp in the borders.

thanks for the Lochaber Acrchive pointers.

Have various minutes and letters ref road, COs and POWs.

[kinloch]

Morning Bob

Would you have a list of names, per chance, of the men who died of the flu and were then reineterred at Cannock Chase ??

Regards,

Graeme

Have names of all interred at Cannock Chase and photographs of Head Stones. My e-mail is rdherbert@aol.com it would be easier as file limitations here.

[MBrockway]

Have had other things on the go and have not been back for a while.

It was me that posted Kinlochleven POW camp plans and photographs on Cranmore.

Attached here is a post card of POW camp at Caolas-na-con in 1918.

For mbriscoe.

Can you let me know the scouce of the prisoner from Kinlochleven POW camp who was shot trying to escape. In all the years my wife and I have returned to this subject we have never found any reference to an escapee being killed, if fact we have found no record of any escapees at all.

Many died in the flue epidemic of 1918 and were buried in Duror Cemetry and later (1960s) re-interred in the War Cementry at Cannock Chase.

If people want to contact me direct

rdherbert@aol.com

Modern view via StreetView from roughly the same viewpoint: http://goo.gl/maps/PmBnA