Salome, France

[Ivor]

This is only my second post and I hope someone can help me please?

The following is related to my grandfather's brother Joseph Steele:

Joseph Steele, 200738 Kings Own Royal (Lancaster) Regiment was killed in action, 28th April, 1918 at Salome, La Bassee front, France, during the First World War whilst a prisoner of war in German hands.

He and a few others had been captured and were held prisoner in the church at Salome. The allies started shelling the area and apparently the Germans ran out of the church to get cover leaving Joseph and the others on their own, so they ran to escape their captors but Joseph had left his helmet in the church and went back for it only for a shell to have a direct hit on the church killing Joseph - the others got back to British lines safely and reported what had happened to Joseph.

His name is mentioned on a plaque at Dud Corner Cemetry as his body was never recovered. He was reported as missing 8th April, 1918. When he enlisted at Ulverston he gave a false age as he was only 16 years old at the time.

Anyone know or have any idea:

1) what was happening in that area during this period? I have read quite a bit about Loos during 1915 but nothing for 1918 that might give me any idea of what realy happened. Was there an attack planned by the allies around this time? (I can only assume Joseph and the others had been out scouting for info when they were captured);

2) Did the village of Salome play any significant role for the Germans?

3) Any other info that might be of help.

Any info/assistance would be gratefully recieved.

Ivor

[Robert Dunlop]

At this time, the British were still fending off the German attacks in the Flanders Spring offensive. The 28th falls within the dates of the Battle of Scherpenberg, which is near Mt Kemmel. It marked the final stages of the Battle of Lys.

The La Bassee Canal had formed the lower edge of the German attack. There was considerable fighting in the area from the outset of the Battle of Lys, as the Germans tried to take Givenchy. However, the British defended superbly, which meant that the Germans were funnelled up the Lys valley and the southern flank of their attack remained vulnerable throughout.

Robert

[Landsturm]

Only battalion of King`s Own from Ulverston is a territorial 1/4th Battalion (formed August 1914). "The Long, Long Trail"-site helps you here on

The King's Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment, The 55th (West Lancashire) Division and The German Offensive in Flanders 1918.

[Northern Soul]

Ivor,

If you look back here in a few days' time I will post the details of the action your great-uncle was taken prisoner in (I suspect he was captured at Givenchy - on the 9th April, rather than the 8th).

As regards him being the only one killed during this incident, this may not be correct. I recall reading that Pte. Robert Helm, also of the 4th King's Own, was killed by Allied shelling at Salome on the same date (Pte. Robert Ralston may be another casualty). Interestingly, he is buried in Cabaret Rouge British Cemetery, Souchez. Who knows? Joseph Steele may be buried there too as an unknown........

I assume you aware that he is also commemorated on Waberthwaite War Memorial?

Do you have a photograph of him that you can post?

Andy.

[Ivor]

Thanks for all your help.

I went to Salome 3 years ago and had a walk around the outside of the church which was rebuilt, and I went and had a look at the pannel with Joseph's name on at Dud Corner.

Joseph signed up in Ulverston in 1914 but I don't have the exact date, I am told that his parents went balmy with him for signing up, especialy with him being only 16 yrs old.

Northern Soul, I will look again in a couple of days time for futher details of the action. No I wasn't aware that anyone else had been killed in Salome during the shelling. Yes, I've seen the Waberthwaite War Memoria and no I don't have a photo of Great Uncle Jospeh but my mother does, he is in his uniform and looks quite scared.

Thanks again to you all for taking the time to respond.

[CROONAERT]

Only battalion of King`s Own from Ulverston is a territorial 1/4th Battalion (formed August 1914).

A Pte. J.Steele is indeed listed in the Roll of Honour for the 1/4 Kings Own in the batallion history. He is listed as "missing".

SDGW gives his rank as Lance Corporal and says he was born in Corney and enlisted in Ulverston.

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

As regards him being the only one killed during this incident, this may not be correct.

SDGW lists 5 soldiers of the 1/4 who were KIA on the same day :Ptes. Helm, Logan, Ralston, Saunt, along with L/Cpl.Steele.

OK they probably weren't all killed in the same event, but on the 28th, the 1/4th were relieved and went into the "village line", so there is a possibility that they were.

Dave.

[Northern Soul]

Ivor,

Below there is an extract from the 4th King's Own Battalion history describing the action at Givenchy on April 9th, 1918, when Joseph Steele was probably captured. He was probably in "D" Company by the way. His father knew that he had been captured (and was safe) as he received a post card from Joseph in late May/early June- presumably via the Red Cross (although sadly he had been killed by the time the card was received at home).

Unfortunately I don't have a trench map of the area but the Battalion frontage at the start of the battle was from the La Bassee Canal bank at the south, running 3/4 mile north to just beyond Givenchy. If you post a request on the forum I'm sure someone will put up a scan of the trenches in that area for you.

Robert Helm (of Dalton) was killed at Salome whilst a prisoner and I'm pretty sure Pte. Robert Ralston (of Lancaster) was too. Thus Joseph Steele was not the only one killed in the "friendly-fire" incident. The two others that Dave (Croonaert) mentioned were killed elsewhere while still serving with the Battalion - they are buried in Houchin British Cemetery, which was being used as a burial ground by 55th (West Lancs.) Division. Helm and Ralston are both buried in the same row (Plot VIII, Row U.) in Cabaret Rouge British Cem., Souchez.

I would strongly suggest that you contact the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and ask for a copy of the original Burial Return pages for both Privates Helm and Ralston. CRBC was mainly a post-war battlefield concentration cemetery and it is just possible that Joseph Steele's body was found at the same time as the other two were exhumed by the search parties but could not be identified. The Burial Returns give what ID details were found (e.g. a badge indicating a soldier of the King's Own) and map locations where bodies were found. If there was a third, unidentified, King's Own soldier found with Ptes. Helm and Ralston then you could draw your own conclusions - although it may not be enough to convince the MoD. I was going to do this myself, as I have long thought that Joseph Steele may be one of the 'missing' whose grave could be perhaps identifed. However, like a lot of other things, I have never got round to doing anything to follow up the idea. If you do follow up the suggestion, please post any info/results you get.

Here is the extract from “The Fourth Battalion The King’s Own and The Great War,” by Lieutenant Colonel F. H. A. Wadham and Captain J. Crossley.

On the 1st April, Companies moved up independently, via the northern bank of the La Basseé Canal; to Pont Fixe, to relieve the 4th Loyals in the right sector of the Brigade front on La Basseé canal. The relief was completed at 11:15 p.m. without incident, the weather being fine And the night quiet. Dispositions were: Right Front “A” Company; Centre “B” Company; left Front “C” Company; with “D” Company in support in Givenchy Keeps. Battalion Headquarters were in the Village Line. On the night of the 4th April our patrols entered the enemy front line and communication trenches without any opposition. Good work on this patrol was done by Second-Lieuts. Raseside, Lyon and Holmes. These patrols again entered the enemy lines on the nights of the 5th and 6th. They penetrated as far as the support line, and found the system unoccupied from the Canal to a point N.E. of Wallingham Crater. A raid which should have been undertaken by the 4th Loyals was cancelled, owing to information gained by our patrols. The 8th was a very quiet day. Not a shell fell on the Brigade front. “D” Company in the Keeps relieved “C” Company on the left front.

On the morning of the 9th April there was a heavy fog. The enemy opened a bombardment with gas shells, and a few 4.2’s and 5.9’s behind our front line. Gradually gas shelling decreased, and the volume of heavier shells decreased, the front line receiving some attention. The following brief summary of events, altogether inadequate to the occasion, must unhappily suffice to give some indication of the historic stand now made by the 55th (West Lancashire) Division, against what was to be the last main despairing effort of a formidable enemy to overwhelm his opponent:-

April 9th.

7.30 a.m. – Our front line was destroyed by Minenwerfers, and shelling was very heavy on Oxford Terrace and Bayswater.

8.5 a.m. – Battalion Headquarters was very heavily shelled, and caused serious casualties to Headquarters Runners and Pioneers.

9.30 a.m. – An “S.O.S.” was received by Runner from Canal North, despatched at 9.15 by Captain Ellwood. This was transmitted by power buzzer and also by Runner, to the forward guns, and to Brigade.

10.30 a.m. – Bayswater from Cheyne Walk to 100 yards north were held by us. 5th Lancashire Fusiliers from Support reached the Village Line. One Platoon of “C” Company, 5th Lancashire Fusiliers reinforced main line of resistance. “D” Company, 5th Lancashire Fusiliers formed a defensive flank at Windy Corner, where the enemy had broken through the Portuguese Division on our left as anticipated. The enemy was prevented from penetrating west of Pont Pike – Windy Corner.

10.50 a.m. – “A” Company were back at spoil bank, and re-took Company Headquarters and Cheyne Walk to beyond Bayswater. Bayswater was cleared by bombing, and Death or Glory Sap was still holding out.

10.55 a.m. – Marie Redoubt was still intact, and Gunner Siding N. held, the enemy being bombed out of Gunner Siding S. toward Orchard Road. We were in touch with the 4th Loyals on our left.

11.20 a.m. – No sign of enemy at Marie Redoubt. Our right Company was in touch with 5th Lancashire Fusiliers in Bayswater, who bombed up Orchard Road.

12.5 p.m. – Enemy holding top of Orchard Road and firing machine guns across Spoil Bank.

12.15 p.m. – We took 14 prisoners in Death or Glory Sap.

12.55 p.m. – Enemy still in Orchard Keep.

3. p.m. – Enemy in Company Headquarters, in Oxford Terrace, Gunner Trench cleared by Captain Evans and Captain Overton.

3.20 p.m. – Company Headquarters in Oxford Terrace re-taken, and enemy cleared from Bayswater and Oxford Terrace.

3.55 p.m. – Enemy cleared from Oxford Keep.

4 p.m. – Enemy cleared from Cheyne Walk, Bayswater and Spoil Bank. Oxford and Cambridge Terrace reported all clear. Reorganization of Keeps in progress.

4.50 p.m. – Arrival of 2 Officers and 50 other ranks, details of other Units, as reinforcements.

4.55 p.m. – Situation on Battalion front: “A” Company in occupation of Bayswater and Death nor Glory Sap. “B” Company in occupation of Bayswater (with 17 other ranks). “C” Company in occupation of Oxford Terrace (with one attached platoon of 5th Lancashire Fusiliers), Marie Redoubt, Gunner Siding and Orchard Keep. “D” Company in occupation of Cambridge Terrace to Wolfe Road. Enemy in occupation of Warlingham Crater and Lower Finchley Road.

5 p.m. – One Company of 5th South Lancashire Regiment (Captain Hill) arrives, and is divided between “A” and “C” Companies.

7.20 p.m. – Marie Redoubt, Orchard Keep, and Gunner Siding normally held by us.

April 10th.

12.30 a.m. – Our original line now held intact. A Patrol of the right front Company reports no enemy movement in No Man’s Land or enemy front line trenches. The night was quiet, with no Artillery fire, and little machine gun fire.

9.40 a.m. – Enemy Aeroplane No. 18 dropped a bomb on Bayswater, wounding 14 of “A” Company. Our low-flying planes fired into enemy trenches. During the afternoon the enemy shelled Windy Corner – Pont Fixe very heavily with 4.2, 5.9, and 8-in. (or 11 in.) shells. Observation of movement behind the enemy lines leads to expectation of another hostile attack. We opened a harassing Artillery and Machine Gun fire on the enemy front line, which continued until 9 p.m. and then slackened.

There were 57 officers and other ranks killed on April 9th and undoubtedly a lot of other casualties including wounded and prisoners. The defence of Orchard Keep was conducted by Second Lieutenant J. H. Collin with sixteen men. All bar one were killed and Second Lieutenant Collin was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross. He is buried in Vieille-Chapelle New Military Cemetery, Lacouture.

Hope this useful.

Best wishes.

Andy.

[Ivor]

Andy,

Thank you very much for the time and effort that you have spent posting this info for me, it is much appreciated. As to your suggestion, I will contact the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and ask for a copy of the original Burial Return pages for both Privates Helm and Ralston and post on here my findings - thanks.

What has been your specific interet in this given that you state that you have thought that my Great Uncle Joseph may be burried with both Privates Helm and Ralston but as an unknown soldier??

If anyone has a copy of the trench map of the Battalion frontage at the start of the battle in April 1918 for the La Bassee Canal bank at the south, running 3/4 mile north to just beyond Givenchy could you please scan a copy for me.

Thanks alot and again thanks Andy.

All the best,

Ivor

[Ivor]

Northern Soul (Andy),

I have phoned the CWGC explaining the situation and I asked for a copy of the original Burial Return pages for both Privates Helm and Ralston as you suggested. I was informed that they do not provide these for the public yet and that there are over 7,000 unidentified graves in the Cabaret Roughe Cemetery, Souchez. They did suggest that I write to their Enquiries Section giving all details and if they have time they will look into it for me, so this I am doing but to me from what they said it doesn't sound too hopeful.

I will keep you updated.

Ivor

[Northern Soul]

Ivor,

When you write to the CWGC emphasise the fact that you are a close relative and they may look favourably on this. The fact that there are a lot of unknowns in Cabaret Rouge is academic - what you want them to look for are any unidentified soldiers, preferably from the King's Own, who were found buried along with Privates Helm and Ralston, when they were exhumed from their original burial location - and where they (any unknowns) are buried now. Since Helm and Ralston are only 10 graves apart then such information should all be on the same page or on adjacent pages - and they should all cite the same map reference.

Don't build your hopes up too much - it was only an idea on my part and it may come to nothing. However, I have had some success in the past with this approach (some failures too !).

Good luck.

Andy.

[Ivor]

Update

Following my letter to the CWGC I have today recieved one of their standard acknowledgement cards. This reads:

COMMONWEALTH WAR GRAVES COMMISSION

Our Ref: 07/04

Dear Sir

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your recent correspondence.

We are currently working to clear a backlog.  However you will receive a fuller reply in the next 3-4 weeks.

Please quote the above reference in any future enquiries regarding this matter.

Enquiries Section

Commonwealth War Graves Commission

Does this mean they are going to investigate the possiblity of Joseph being burried in an unmarked grave near Privates Helm and Ralston? Or are they more likely to write back in 3-4 weeks stating they do not have the resources to carry out an investigation?

I'll keep you up to date with anything I recieve from the CWGC.

Thanks,

Ivor

[Ivor]

As suggested, in my letter to the CWGC I asked them to look into the possible burrial of Joseph Steele asking them to look for are any unidentified soldiers, preferably from the King's Own, who were found buried along with Privates Helm and Ralston, when they were exhumed from their original burial location - and where they (any unknowns) are buried now. Since Helm and Ralston are only 10 graves apart then such information should all be on the same page or on adjacent pages - and they should all cite the same map reference.

To-day I have recieved the following reply:

'Thank you for your letter of 13 July pertaining to the possible burial of your great uncle, Joseph Steele in Cabaret Rouge British Cemetery.

Cabaret Rouge British cemetery, Souchez contains 7655 burials, 4461 of which are unknown.

I have undertaken a search of the Grave Registration Reports for the plot which contains the graves of Privates Helm and Ralston, Plot 8.

Plot 8 contains 153 unknown British casualties. Plot 8 Row U, the row which contains the graves of Helm and Ralston contains the graves of 13 unknown casualties.

I am sorry that I can not give you more positive information on this occasion.

Yours sincerely'

Whislt the CWGC have searcyhed the Grave Registration Reports for the plots containing Helm and Ralston it would appear that they have not done as I requested above, i.e. looked for are any unidentified soldiers, preferably from the King's Own, who were found buried along with Privates Helm and Ralston, when they were exhumed from their original burial location, although I may be wrong.

Any suggestions as to where I go from here? Do you think it would be worth me going down to Kew and looking through the records myself?

Any help/suggestions most greatfuly received.

Ivor

[Ivor]

I have finaly managed to get hold of a photo of my great uncle Joseph who was killed at Salome.

Can anyone tell me what the badge is on his arm above the lance corporal stipe?

Also, is there anywhere where I can find out the date and where he was made lance corporal and then corporal?

Thanks,

Ivor