Have I got this right?

[General Confusion]

Apologies if these topics have been covered before and are somewhat simple but any answers will mean huge leap forward in my family research.

Extract 001 is part of 35 Battery in Italy 1918. Could someone please tell me what the stripes on the lower right sleeve are? Are they wound stripes?

Extract 002 is from the early 1900's and shows inverted chevrons on the lower left sleeve, two I believe. Are these "long service markings"? And did one get a chevron for each year served?

Extract 002 also shows the flaming grenade emblem for artillery at the collar of his dress uniform. In what year was this emblem discarded in favour of the side view of the field artillery piece

Any help gratefully received

[Piorun]

Wound stripes were usually vertical and worn on the left sleeve. Antony

[Stebie9173]

The chevrons on the right sleeve are overseas service stripes. Introduced in early 1918, they were backdated. One blue stripe on arrival in a theatre of war was awarded, and one more for each year overseas (a reasonable period of leave counted as overseas). The bottom stripe was red if a man served overseas in 1914. These appear to be all blue, so 3 to 4 years service overseas commencing in 1915 would appear to be the case here.

Good conduct chevrons worn on the left sleeve were awarded as follows: 2 years = 1 stripe; 5 years (cumulative) = 2 stripes; 10 years = 3 stripes.

Steve.

[FROGSMILE]

Apologies if these topics have been covered before and are somewhat simple but any answers will mean huge leap forward in my family research.

Extract 001 is part of 35 Battery in Italy 1918. Could someone please tell me what the stripes on the lower right sleeve are? Are they wound stripes?

Extract 002 is from the early 1900's and shows inverted chevrons on the lower left sleeve, two I believe. Are these "long service markings"? And did one get a chevron for each year served?

Extract 002 also shows the flaming grenade emblem for artillery at the collar of his dress uniform. In what year was this emblem discarded in favour of the side view of the field artillery piece

Any help gratefully received

A great photo of the artillery man in undress frock. The plain grenade collar badges were changed in 1926 when the scroll with "UBIQUE" was added for both RA and RE. He is also wearing two 'good conduct badges' (inverted chevrons) on his left forearm (for 5-years as Stebie said) and above it a badge for being in the prize battery for gunnery. The pill box cap was replaced in 1902 by the Brodrick cap, so all-in-all the photo seems to be from around about the turn of the century.

[General Confusion]

I don't want to start getting too obsequious but many thanks for those who have have taken the time to share their knowledge.

This doesn't just sort out these particular photos but it has a butterfly effect. It helps me understand the other all too few military photos, it helps put them in the context of the happily surviving military record and it goes some way to helping date some of the (many unwritten on) civilian photos of that period

Again many thanks

[Graham Stewart]

The period photo is very interesting as he's wearing a "Blue" patrol jacket, which appears to have slightly darker collar fitted. Both the Austrian knot on the cuff, the piping around the collar and the lower part of his pillbox cap will infact be yellow, as this colour becomes much darker in sepia photography.

His shoulder strap carries a shoulder titles and above the knot, he's wearing crossed gun barrels, with a crown above, which I believe may refer to a "prize" gunner

[FROGSMILE]

The period photo is very interesting as he's wearing a "Blue" patrol jacket, which appears to have slightly darker collar fitted. Both the Austrian knot on the cuff, the piping around the collar and the lower part of his pillbox cap will infact be yellow, as this colour becomes much darker in sepia photography.

His shoulder strap carries a shoulder titles and above the knot, he's wearing crossed gun barrels, with a crown above, which I believe may refer to a "prize" gunner

Hi Graham, the RA seemed to have a few versions of this undress uniform. Here is another of a Trumpeter RA, but with 7 buttons and no lace on the sleeve or collar. A common feature seemed to be the upper pleated pockets but there were none on the skirt.

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Graham, the RA seemed to have a few versions of this undress uniform. Here is another of a Trumpeter RA, but with 7 buttons and no lace on the sleeve or collar. A common feature seemed to be the upper pleated pockets but there were none on the skirt.

Just found it unusual to have what appears to be a different shade of collar, with regards to the rest of the "Blue" patrol jacket. I do know certain Volunteer Artillery units have been seen to be wearing scarlet, which is unusual in itself.

The photo you've kindly reproduced appears to have have a post-WWI appearance, which would account for the lack of lace. I have a large Indian CDV in my collection showing a regular gunner, with lad from NF, taken shortly before the War and he is wearing a similar pattern "blue" patrol jacket to the earlier one posted complete with yellow lace. However his crossed guns and crown, appear on the lower right arm, whereas the first post shows it on the left.

[FROGSMILE]

Just found it unusual to have what appears to be a different shade of collar, with regards to the rest of the "Blue" patrol jacket. I do know certain Volunteer Artillery units have been seen to be wearing scarlet, which is unusual in itself.

The photo you've kindly reproduced appears to have have a post-WWI appearance, which would account for the lack of lace. I have a large Indian CDV in my collection showing a regular gunner, with lad from NF, taken shortly before the War and he is wearing a similar pattern "blue" patrol jacket to the earlier one posted complete with yellow lace. However his crossed guns and crown, appear on the lower right arm, whereas the first post shows it on the left.

Yes you are right Graham, the photo I posted is post WW1. I do find the variations of Blue Patrol type jackets fascinating because they are so poorly documented. I was unaware until you mentioned it of the Gunners ever wearing red, although the RE had to change to red from blue because they were apparently often shot at by the infantry thinking that they were French troops ! An early example of that oxymoron 'friendly fire' that is ironically often referred to within the trade as a blue on blue contact.

[Graham Stewart]

Yes you are right Graham, the photo I posted is post WW1. I do find the variations of Blue Patrol type jackets fascinating because they are so poorly documented. I was unaware until you mentioned it of the Gunners ever wearing red, although the RE had to change to red from blue because they were apparently often shot at by the infantry thinking that they were French troops ! An early example of that oxymoron 'friendly fire' that is ironically often referred to within the trade as a blue on blue contact.

One of the best sources for photo's and uniform examples of the Artillery are two wonderful books, by the late Norman Litchfield entitled "The Volunteer Artillery" & "The Militia Artillery". Norman was an avid collector and researcher of the Royal Artillery and it's branches and had other artillery projects in line for publication until his untimely death many years ago. To be honest these books were limited editions, so don't know if they may still be availible to buy.

[FROGSMILE]

One of the best sources for photo's and uniform examples of the Artillery are two wonderful books, by the late Norman Litchfield entitled "The Volunteer Artillery" & "The Militia Artillery". Norman was an avid collector and researcher of the Royal Artillery and it's branches and had other artillery projects in line for publication until his untimely death many years ago. To be honest these books were limited editions, so don't know if they may still be availible to buy.

Thanks Graham, I will look out for the books, perhaps in abe. I had just been reading about the raising of the Volunteer Artillery and of course they were absorbed by the TF and ensured that we had a skeleton to build upon in 1914.