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Service Numbers


Bradford WW1 Group

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Please can anyone help identify a Battalion from basic info on a MiC. Other than his medals (VM and BWM) I just have:

Private Arthur Roberts West Yorkshire Regiment 30165/Labour Corps 11203

Many thanks

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Looks like Arthur and all the men around him were part of the 22nd (Labour) Battalion of the West Yorks and were subsequently transferred to the 18th and 19th Labour companies of the Labour Corps.

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Looks like Arthur and all the men around him were part of the 22nd (Labour) Battalion of the West Yorks and were subsequently transferred to the 18th and 19th Labour companies of the Labour Corps.

Many thanks for this: I had assumed 22Btn but have nothing circumstantial to back it up. You mention 18;/19 Coy of Labour Corps. Do have reasons for suggesting this? If you could point me to sources I would be extremely grateful.

PP

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According to John Starling & Ivor Lee's book "No Labour, No Battle" the 22nd West Yorks. formed two Labour Companies, the 18th & 19th. Number range 10201-10800 was allocated to 18th Labour Company, 10801-11400 was allocated to the 19th.

The list of numbers was published in ACI 611 in April 1917.

Steve

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According to John Starling & Ivor Lee's book "No Labour, No Battle" the 22nd West Yorks. formed two Labour Companies, the 18th & 19th. Number range 10201-10800 was allocated to 18th Labour Company, 10801-11400 was allocated to the 19th.

The list of numbers was published in ACI 611 in April 1917.

Steve

Thanks Steve! This explains his 11203 number and gives a date for allocation of numbers. I await more posts re the 30165 number.

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Hi. I think the only way to be sure which battalion he served overseas with, is to check the Medal Rolls You can either go to Kew and check them, get a professional researcher to check, or ask HERE if a forum pal if they could check for you.

A local newspaper might have something on him, and mention his battalion?

Cheers Mike

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Bradford....

An example of a soldier numbered 30167. James Drury died of wounds on 12.9.1916 on the Somme and he was 22 Battalion WYR. Youir man almost certainly signed on within a day or two of this man and must have gone to the same Bn.

The problem with relying on Labour Corps Medal Rolls (Mr Skipman,sir) is that they don't always show first Battalion served on arrival in a war theatre !

As it is the original Medal Roll is in Ledger WO329/1787 page 690.

Sotonmate

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" The problem with relying on Labour Corps Medal Rolls (Mr Skipman,sir) is that they don't always show first Battalion served on arrival in a war theatre ! " :thumbsup:

I actually meant the West Yorks number, and should have said so.

I bow to your vastly superior knowledge sotonmate.

Cheers Mike

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Mike

The Labour Corps processed the issue of his medals,even though they were his entitlement from the West Yorks. The West Yorks number will be there on the Roll but the few Labour Corps ledgers I have looked in haven't gone as far as showing first Battalion served.Not to say that none are shown among all the ones I haven't seen ! It must have been a work-up for the LC doing all this work and getting all the detail they needed from a soldier's previous Regt !

Sotonmate

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James Drury was formerly 24978 York and Lancs, so may throw the enlistment date out. Unless Arthur came from the York and Lancs.

As for the 30*** numbers a lot where brought in from York and Lancs [poss] not fit for active service to make up the West Yorks Labour Batt. Arthur Roberts may well be one of these?

Regards as always

Kevin

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Further to the earlier mention of James Drury (30167, 22nd WYR who died of wounds 12.9.16), he was formerly 24978, Yorks & Lancs Regt. He enlisted in Rotherham. On 1911 Census there is a man of the right age and background (family from Roscommon as mentioned on death record) who is a steel worker. As it happens there is also an Arthur Roberts, steelworker, of similar age.

So, on first glance, they may have joined together. But, of course, James enlisted with Y and L and Arthur in WYR so possibly not. Far too much speculation in all directions!

The conclusion to all this may be that, with all the movements going on between regiments and battalions, we may never know anything else about my original enquiry: Private Arthur Roberts (30165) whose medals are on sale in Mytholmroyd!! Maybe we should put it to rest.

Thanks to everyone.

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Labour Corps rolls of the British War and Victory Medals never* give units of either the Corps itself or of any previous regiment.

*Waits for someone to prove this wrong ... but I have seen hundreds of LC roll pages and never yet have I seen a unit given.

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The conclusion to all this may be that, with all the movements going on between regiments and battalions, we may never know anything else about my original enquiry: Private Arthur Roberts (30165) ..... Maybe we should put it to rest.

I don't really agree with the last line. I think that there is enough information within this thread, backed up by further service details available on Ancestry, to suggest that Arthur Roberts was one of a large batch of Y&L men transferred to the 22nd (Labour) WYR.

Kevin has already stated that 30167 James Drury 22nd WYR was formerly 24978 Y&L. A couple of records on Ancestry show:

Shaw, 24572 Y&L to 30117 WYR - mobilised 17/03/1916; transferred to WYR 10/04/1916; France 11/05/1916

Brown, 24653 Y&L to 30009 WYR - mobilised 24/03/1916; transferred to WYR 10/04/1916; France 11/05/1916

Further to the earlier mention of James Drury .... enlisted in Rotherham. On 1911 Census there is a man of the right age and background (family from Roscommon as mentioned on death record) who is a steel worker. As it happens there is also an Arthur Roberts, steelworker, of similar age.

So, on first glance, they may have joined together. But, of course, James enlisted with Y and L and Arthur in WYR so possibly not. Far too much speculation in all directions!

Yes, a lot of speculation, but backed up with data from surviving records - perhaps more educated guesswork than speculation? Regards 'James enlisted with Y and L and Arthur in WYR' - this is speculation; I would suggest that records indicate a good chance that Arthur also enlisted in the Y&L Regt. and followed a similar path wrt dates of transfer, disembarkation etc.

Cheers,

Stuart

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Hi Stuart

With the numbering sequnce that i have looked at, i would speculate on the positive side that Arthur did come from the York and Lancs and was not a direct intake to the West Yorks. Just looking at your numbering, well over a 100 men from the York and Lancs where taken in on the 10/4/16 into the 22nd Batt. I would even go further and say the number spread from the York and Kancs went from 30000 to 30170. so a 170 men where transfered to the 22nd Batt West Yorks. As the 22nd West Yorks was formed in April 1916, you can speculate a large percentage of these men came from other Regiments to make this Battalion....I would say this specualtation is correct. As certain early 308** to 314** numbering is from the Staffs, 305** from the Lincs, only late 314** numbers seem to be direct intakes into the West Yorks.....You can also throw in a few West Riding lads into the 304*** numbers..But all the evidence points to a intake for Arthur from another Regiment.

Regards Kevin

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Hi Kevin,

Yes, I quite agree with your conclusion that Arthur was transferred in from another regiment (likely to be the York & Lancs). I inferred from Bradford WW1 Group's post re 'put it to rest' that perhaps we may have to give up on this one; my response was just to say that although there is no conclusive proof, I think that it is possible to put together a case along the lines you mention above. A more thorough search (than I had time to do) of York & Lancs files on Ancestry in the number range 245** to 249** may yield dividends.

Cheers,

Stuart

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Stuart not to worry that side of things are covered, but as Arthur is not in amongst them you can not say 100%, but there is more evidence to say he was than to say he was not. Anyway it was more Research/Information than Bradford Group asked for, it is know up to him/them/her/ect to to use it as they feel fit.

Regards Kevin

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