Red Cross roundel on khaki HAC jacket

[wainfleet]

I was recently fortunate enough to acquire a service dress jacket badged to a sergeant in the HAC. The Hobsons label is still mostly present and is dated 6 Aug 1914. There were two other pieces with it, a red tunic with Victorian buttons and a white fatigue jacket with KC buttons, both with corporal chevrons. The vendor told me that all three had come together and appeared to have belonged to the same person, though none were named. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the other two.

I know what the grenade (worn by all HAC NCOs) and the medal ribbon (HAC efficiency ribbon) are. What I do not know is the significance of the red cross roundel between the chevrons and the grenade. Would this NCO have been a first aid instructor, or perhaps in charge of the regimental aid post, an older soldier (hence the QVC buttons on the red tunic) given a job behind the front line?

I am pretty confident that everything on the jacket is original and untouched. It is quite heavily worn, and the field dressing pocket has been carefully cut out and used to patch a hole in one of the pockets! Which makes me wonder whether he was working in an environment with plenty of dressings always available. Equally, he might have served at home and not needed an FD, or just disregarded the regulations and carried it in a pocket. All just speculation.

I did wonder how such an early piece of khaki managed to survive instead of being worn out, and my guess is that he was probably commissioned, along with most of the other NCOs and many private soldiers in the HAC.

Suggestions welcome!

[Blackblue]

Denotes RAMC I believe. Interesting that the uniform also has HAC buttons and grenade though as I thought RAMC were generally 'attached'.

Rgds

Tim D

[FROGSMILE]

I was recently fortunate enough to acquire a service dress jacket badged to a sergeant in the HAC. The Hobsons label is still mostly present and is dated 6 Aug 1914. There were two other pieces with it, a red tunic with Victorian buttons and a white fatigue jacket with KC buttons, both with corporal chevrons. The vendor told me that all three had come together and appeared to have belonged to the same person, though none were named. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the other two.

I know what the grenade (worn by all HAC NCOs) and the medal ribbon (HAC efficiency ribbon) are. What I do not know is the significance of the red cross roundel between the chevrons and the grenade. Would this NCO have been a first aid instructor, or perhaps in charge of the regimental aid post, an older soldier (hence the QVC buttons on the red tunic) given a job behind the front line?

I am pretty confident that everything on the jacket is original and untouched. It is quite heavily worn, and the field dressing pocket has been carefully cut out and used to patch a hole in one of the pockets! Which makes me wonder whether he was working in an environment with plenty of dressings always available. Equally, he might have served at home and not needed an FD, or just disregarded the regulations and carried it in a pocket. All just speculation.

I did wonder how such an early piece of khaki managed to survive instead of being worn out, and my guess is that he was probably commissioned, along with most of the other NCOs and many private soldiers in the HAC.

Suggestions welcome!

I think you are right that he is probably a mature sergeant appointed to the RAP and illegally wearing the RAMC cross as a badge of appointment. I have seen this several times before and indeed the practice of appointing regimental sergeants in such a way was quite common in the infantry and probably still is. It certainly was in 1 RWF.

[wainfleet]

I think you are right that he is probably a mature sergeant appointed to the RAP and illegally wearing the RAMC cross as a badge of appointment. I have seen this several times before and indeed the practice of appointing regimental sergeants in such a way was quite common in the infantry and probably still is. It certainly was in 1 RWF.

Thanks for the above two posts and to FM in particular for confirming that this practice went on. Still hoping to hear from El Grumpo!

[wainfleet]

Just bumping this up because I see Grumpy is back on the board; would very much like to get the view of the acknowledged expert.

[Muerrisch]

Very kind of you sir!

Yes, Frogsmile is correct, the Geneva Cross was explicitly for RAMC personnel and I have several photos of non-RAMC men wearing it on both sleeves [and now I have an extra photo of course]. Interestingly the Manual of Military Law only grants non-combatant status to soldiers on duty WEARING THE WHITE BRASSARD WITH RED GENEVA CROSS, AND CARRYING THE APPROVAL STAMP ON THE BACK.

It does seem sensible that, if the Pioneer Sgt, the Armourer, the Drum/Bugle/Trumpet/Pipe-major, the PTI, the Musketry instructor ...... all wore a distinctive recognition sign, then a sergeant running the RAP might also need to be recognised.

Anomalous but not outrageous.

Nice jacket, too!

PS just noticed that the badge is the uncommon one on drab, rather than on dark navy. I just wonder if the SD backing was a VF/TF affectation?

[wainfleet]

I think that confirmation pretty well clinches it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, G.

I've never heard of the drab backing being TF (ie. TF RAMC) as opposed to Regular, but the rationale for it is still a mystery, and so that cannot be ruled out.

Add: let me know if you would like a photo of the whole thing.

[Muerrisch]

I would indeed: PM sent