Help needed with a bayonet

[trajan]

Hi, hoping for some help here!

A guy I know locally (here in Turkey) is offering to sell me what he calls a '1903 INGILIZ NO1 MK2 Sungu' - a '1903 English no.1 mk 2 bayonet', something I have never heard of... No photos as yet (I apologise for this), but it certainly isn't a 1903 (I have one of those).

It does look UK or Commonwealth made, about half the length of a P1907, with a scabbard of P.1907 type (but shorter - and a round frog stud, so Australian?), and an UNFULLERED blade which ends with a TRANSVERSE edge, not a point. But there are no markings on one ricasso, while the other has simply two single strokes before an obsolete or sold out of service mark (i.e., something like 'I I *'), over the three letters '(something unclear followed by).W.R.', over the number '43'. The pommel has what seems to be a '3A' over '58', and along one side of the scabbard stitching is a 'W' before two illegible letters/numbers and '1943'.

Perhaps the bayonet men S>S>, TonyE, etc, can help on this but any help gratefully received!

Trajan

PS: I apologise in advance if this is a well-known type adequately published in Skemmerton, Janzen etc., but I am still awaiting delivery of these to the univ. library!

[peregrinvs]

Sounds like it might be a North West Railways (NWR) manufactured Indian No.1 MkII bayonet that has been refurbed postwar and the original markings partially removed. Have a look here:

http://www.old-smithy.info/country%20sheets/india.htm

[trajan]

Sounds like it might be a North West Railways (NWR) manufactured Indian No.1 MkII bayonet that has been refurbed postwar and the original markings partially removed. Have a look here:

http://www.old-smith...heets/india.htm

Thank you so much - yes that is exactly what it seems to be, with false edge and all! I guess the 'II*' is the end of what would have been something like 'Mk II*' And (N)WR makes perfect sense! And I suppose refurbishing (in 1958? - might explain the pommel markings?) would explain why there was no crown markings on the other side of the ricasso.

I guess these are not particularly rare? ALL bayonet prices are grossly inflated in Turkey as there are so few around, and I know I am always paying over the odds for what a bayonet will sell for in the UK or USA, but this one seemed way over the top!

Trajan

[4thGordons]

Thank you so much - yes that is exactly what it seems to be, with false edge and all! I guess the 'II*' is the end of what would have been something like 'Mk II*' And (N)WR makes perfect sense! And I suppose refurbishing (in 1958? - might explain the pommel markings?) would explain why there was no crown markings on the other side of the ricasso.

I guess these are not particularly rare? ALL bayonet prices are grossly inflated in Turkey as there are so few around, and I know I am always paying over the odds for what a bayonet will sell for in the UK or USA, but this one seemed way over the top!

Trajan

There is a picture in my response to the question about the full length Ishapore in the Vickers P13 thread. It is the bayonet second from the right IN THIS PICTURE (CLICK)

Chris

Edit: apologies Trajan - originally I thought you had asked about this inthe other thread - I have amended this post to reflect the fact that you did not!

Edited 26 May , 2011 by 4thGordons

[trajan]

There is a picture in my response to the question about the full length Ishapore in the Vickers P13 thread. It is the bayonet second from the right IN THIS PICTURE (CLICK)

Chris

Edit: apologies Trajan - originally I thought you had asked about this inthe other thread - I have amended this post to reflect the fact that you did not!

Thank you Chris! Offhand the one I saw / was offered was pretty certainly an Indian issue Mk II* as according to the Old Smithy site (via Peregrinus) and your photos (Chris), I was confused by the lack of an expected crown and pattern date on the other side of the ricasso. As I asked earlier, I guess these are not rare and certainly not worth what the guy is asking!

Trajan