alex falbo Posted 24 May , 2011 Share Posted 24 May , 2011 To pals, In working with my SMLE, I naturally encountered rimlock. How does one load the chargers to avoid this problem? And on a historical note, were Tommies instructed during traning how to avoid this or was it learned in the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 24 May , 2011 Share Posted 24 May , 2011 Like this, It found it on google so cannot credit the original owner. Can't help on the training side sorry. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 24 May , 2011 Share Posted 24 May , 2011 To pals, In working with my SMLE, I naturally encountered rimlock. How does one load the chargers to avoid this problem? And on a historical note, were Tommies instructed during traning how to avoid this or was it learned in the field? I have no idea what "rim-lock" is. Could you enlighten me? Garron has shown the correct loading of chargers DUDUD so I assume rim-lock is failure to strip cleanly into the magazine? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 24 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2011 Thanks Garron. Chris, Rim lock is when the rim of the top round is stuck on the rim of the round below it in the magazine due to poor loading of the charger. It results in the bolts inability to cycle/push the next round into the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 (edited) Thanks Garron. Chris, Rim lock is when the rim of the top round is stuck on the rim of the round below it in the magazine due to poor loading of the charger. It results in the bolts inability to cycle/push the next round into the chamber. Thanks. In 20+ years of shooting enfields I have not experienced this. Where I have (infrequently) experienced loading issues it has always been a result of the magazine feed lips or the magazine follower/spring. Chris Edited 25 May , 2011 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 It cannot be due to an incorrectly loaded charger, as from the illustration shown above, every second round has its rim 'locked' by the one below it.? Perhaps I am missing something here ... but I don't believe that is the source of the loading problem. Then again I'm always ready to learn something new.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 The order of the rounds in the charger actually make no difference at all - the design of the Enfield magazine ensures that the rounds enter base-first, thus the lowest round always positions its rim behind that of the one above. In fact the rounds can be placed in the charger in any order at all, and they will still load correctly; all that is needed to clear an occasional rim-over-rim obstruction is to vigorously push the rounds deeper into the magazine so that they re-order themselves. Best way to observe this is with a magazine from a skeleton action; the Enfield magazine is really a masterpiece of design in the way it handles rimmed rounds. The military "two up, three down" method of positioning rounds in a charger simply provides a symmetrical load with optimum grip by the metal charger. Many shooters in competitions involving a reload element use the "rim over rim" method with all of the rounds inclined the same way, although this doesn't appear to give an actual speed advantage and is probably based on the same historical misunderstanding of how the charger system works. Many civilian shooter problems with Enfields derive from not being "brisk" enough with the various actions - e.g. many misfeeds and poor ejections arise because the shooter operates the bolt too slowly. The same generally applies with charger loading: so long as the rounds are vigorously stripped and pressed right down into the magazine, they will stack themselves correctly. Usually only the ninth and tenth rounds "rim jam" because they have the least spare travel available, and tend to be the ones where those shooters with weaker thumb action don't give a big enough push! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Brock Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 I learned the DUDUD method somewhere else on this forum where it was said to have been learned in training. It works - all the time. What's more, a fresh charger can be fed in on top of any number (less than five!) of rounds. The rim-over-rim method works as well but the chargers can only be loaded in one orientation whereas the DUDUD is universal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 Assuming the No4 version is the same from the charger point of view my experience says Thunderbox is absolutly correct. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASA1 Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 I was at an NRA Enfield 'special interest' day on Saturday where the 'UDUDU' method of filling the charger was also mentioned (I can't quire recall the supposed benefit over DUDUD - something about less friction between rounds?). I would reiterate Thunderbox's comments about not being 'brisk' enough with the bolt. Interestingly, during the day's shooting there were no problems with the SMLE's but quite a few misfeeds with No.4s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 25 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 25 May , 2011 Thunderbox: spot on with the rapidity of motion. Most if not all of my issues occur with slower movements. I'm mainly practicing with snap caps before taking my SMLE to the range. I might add however that in loading it with the Army method I had not jams whatsoever. But I believe that rimlock could be another issue as the Lee magazine design and action are superior. More or less, the problem I encountered is the same as this fellow. We are denied closer examination but it illustrates the effect and what I will do to clear it if I can get the rounds to re-stack properly by pushing them back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 Thunderbox: spot on with the rapidity of motion. Most if not all of my issues occur with slower movements. ... More or less, the problem I encountered is the same as this fellow. We are denied closer examination but it illustrates the effect and what I will do to clear it if I can get the rounds to re-stack properly by pushing them back down. The bloke in the vid seems to be determined to treat the operation of the bolt as 4 movements, when IME it's more like 2, as lift and drop of the 'andle should blend with the reciprocation. Either that, or there was something wrong with bolt or magazine, as it should be possible to be a good deal slicker than that. It should be operated as quickly as possible so as to leave more time for aiming. I've never had a rim-over-rim stoppage in any SMLE or No.4 I've shot since 1965. If it happened, I'd tend to suspect the magazine lips meself. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 1 June , 2011 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2011 Was out shooting for the second time yesterday and did not experience "rimlock" while stacking the rounds in a variety of ways. The only trouble I seem to have is with the snap caps and this might be due to how they fit in the magazine. Interesting I must say. Guess I've learned something on this one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted 23 June , 2011 Share Posted 23 June , 2011 I think in the UK a 'rimlock' was known as a 'rim over rim stoppage'. The main cause is that the thumb isn't held near the charger when the rounds are loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 23 June , 2011 Share Posted 23 June , 2011 I think in the UK a 'rimlock' was known as a 'rim over rim stoppage'. The main cause is that the thumb isn't held near the charger when the rounds are loaded. Indeed it is, but is only mentioned in the context of the Bren gun in the WW2 smallarms manual I have - implication is that it's almost unheard of in a No.1 (SMLE) or No.4 Lee Enfield in standard military condition. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 23 June , 2011 Share Posted 23 June , 2011 I can only speak for training in TA in mid fifties which was the same as School cadets early fifties, DUDU in the charger or in the mag, same as the Bren. Many happy(?) hours spent loading and stripping same with wooden drill rounds and I guess that is how the training had always been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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