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Remembered Today:

James Lawson died 19/10/1916 Lincolnshire Regiment


sdjknox

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Hi all,

I wondered if anyone can help with information about a relative of my wife. He is JAMES LAWSON born Gainsborough died 19/10/1916 serving in the Lincolnshire Regiment 2nd Battalion and commemorated on the Thiepval Monument. Born Morton Lincolnshire 4 May 1885.

I am interested in what the battalion was doing that day etc.

This is my first post so treat me gently please!

Steve

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Melanie_21

Do you by any chance know where James went to School? I am trying to research ex Bourne Grammar School students who have graves in the War graves in France for a future school visit.

Thank you

Mel

Hi all,

I wondered if anyone can help with information about a relative of my wife. He is JAMES LAWSON born Gainsborough died 19/10/1916 serving in the Lincolnshire Regiment 2nd Battalion and commemorated on the Thiepval Monument. Born Morton Lincolnshire 4 May 1885.

I am interested in what the battalion was doing that day etc.

This is my first post so treat me gently please!

Steve

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Guest Melanie_21

Do you by any chance know where James went to School? I am trying to research ex Bourne Grammar School students who have graves in the War graves in France for a future school visit.

Thank you

Mel

Hi all,

I wondered if anyone can help with information about a relative of my wife. He is JAMES LAWSON born Gainsborough died 19/10/1916 serving in the Lincolnshire Regiment 2nd Battalion and commemorated on the Thiepval Monument. Born Morton Lincolnshire 4 May 1885.

I am interested in what the battalion was doing that day etc.

This is my first post so treat me gently please!

Steve

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Steve

The 2 Lincolns War Diary is digital and can be downloaded from the National Archives Catalogue for 3.50. It is under WO95/1730 and runs from first landing in France with 8 Division in Nov 1914, through to Jan 1918. The Division is shown as being in the first Battle of the Somme,at Albert,from 1-13 July 1916,but then does not feature in any other battles up to the date of your subject's death on 19 Oct 1916. The Diary will tell you where they were at that time. Likely they were in the trench line somewhere nearby holding the ground and this soldier became a casualty of day-to-day attrition.

Your man has two service numbers,initially he was 4508 and later 40077.

Sotonmate

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Do you by any chance know where James went to School? I am trying to research ex Bourne Grammar School students who have graves in the War graves in France for a future school visit.

Thank you

Mel

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Mel,

Sorry I have little information about James Lawson. From the census I know he was born 4th May 1885 in Morton which I believe is part of North Gainsborough. His family (parents, uncles and aunts) were situated in Leadenham Lincolnshire. Your school in Bourne seems quite a long way away and I cannot see a likely connection with James. Best of luck with your searches for ex pupils.

I am eventually going to track another relative George Henry Lawson born 1896 Somerby Lincolnshire. This relative (my wife's grandfather) survived the war but I know absolutely nothing about him including which regiment he served in (no MIC or attestation papers appear to survive). Another post will be on its way! Nearer Bourne but I doubt if there is any connection.

Kind Regards,

Steve

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Steve

The 2 Lincolns War Diary is digital and can be downloaded from the National Archives Catalogue for 3.50. It is under WO95/1730 and runs from first landing in France with 8 Division in Nov 1914, through to Jan 1918. The Division is shown as being in the first Battle of the Somme,at Albert,from 1-13 July 1916,but then does not feature in any other battles up to the date of your subject's death on 19 Oct 1916. The Diary will tell you where they were at that time. Likely they were in the trench line somewhere nearby holding the ground and this soldier became a casualty of day-to-day attrition.

Your man has two service numbers,initially he was 4508 and later 40077.

Sotonmate

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Sotonmate,

Thanks for the information and the source at the National Archives. I shall investigate a download having previously downloaded his MIC from this source. This was my first post and due to confusion I posted a very similar post in Units and Formations within Great War Forum. Replies there have been very interesting regarding James's time in France but I haven't seen the War Diary entries.

Kind Regards,

Steve

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Hi

James Lawson has a short Territorial Force number (4508) and a later number from the year 1917 (40077) indicating that he served with a Territorial unit, most likely to have been the 1/5th because of the geography. His Medal Roll tells us as much.

Looking through the Rolls, it looks like he was one of a number of men transferred from these Territorial Battalions, i.e. the 1/4th and 1/5th en-bloc, with consequitive numbers.

DW

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Sotonmate,

Thanks for the advice regarding the download of the National Archives. I have done this and very interesting it is. The day James Lawson died the battalion after dinner in Trones Wood and marched to the trenches at Lesbeoufs and relieved the Bedfordshire regiment in the front line. Presumably he died from an artillery shell on the trench.

Kind regards,

Steve

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Hi

James Lawson has a short Territorial Force number (4508) and a later number from the year 1917 (40077) indicating that he served with a Territorial unit, most likely to have been the 1/5th because of the geography. His Medal Roll tells us as much.

Looking through the Rolls, it looks like he was one of a number of men transferred from these Territorial Battalions, i.e. the 1/4th and 1/5th en-bloc, with consequitive numbers.

DW

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Hi DW,

Thanks for the view about James Lawson. I now have a full idea of what happened when he joined the 2nd Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment and the movements of the battalion in France. I wondered if anyone would have information about the service earlier in the 1/4 or 1/5. I can see why you are suggesting these battalions as they are Lincoln based. I have had some assistance on my other post (in Units and Formations) from a couple of experts on the Regiment and these suggest he was in the 5th Lincs (presumably the 2/5th Grimsby) and I shall ask them to assist more.

Kind Regards,

Steve

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SK

It looks as if James would have joined the TF 1/5th between 10/11/1915 and the end of December, 1915. Managed to dig the Roll out after a root about.

DW

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SK

It looks as if James would have joined the TF 1/5th between 10/11/1915 and the end of December, 1915. Managed to dig the Roll out after a root about.

DW

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DW

Thanks for the info about James Lawson. This was my first post to the GWF and I lost where I had posted it and in effect made a similar enquiry in the Units and Formations! That produced some other interesting information and I am going to ask in that forum for further information about what the 1/4 or 1/5 were doing in France, once I am certain which battalion he was in.

When you refer to the Roll does this confirm what battalion he was in prior to the transfer to the 2nd Lincs? In my other post I had a reply that on 26/8/1915 a large draft of 2/4 and 2/5 (not either the 1/4 or1/5) (James Lawson I am informed was originally in the 5th Lincs service number 4808 and probably the 2/5) were transferred to France . Can you or anyone else help me by confirming what battalion he was in prior to 24/9/16?

I have downloaded his MIC and am aware of what happened to the 2nd Battalion (James Lawson with a service number of 40077 via my other post and downloads from National Archives) when he was transferred on 24/9/16 before being killed on 19/10/16.

Kind regards,

Steve

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SK

Yes, the Medal roll states which unit he was with prior to his posting to the 2nd Battalion............in this case, the 1/5th.

DW

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SK

The Medal Roll which includes No.40077 (4508) Pte. James Lawson 1/5th Battalion, later 2nd Battalion.

DW

post-15564-0-74067600-1307617468.jpg

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Hi all,

I wondered if anyone can help with information about a relative of my wife. He is JAMES LAWSON born Gainsborough died 19/10/1916 serving in the Lincolnshire Regiment 2nd Battalion and commemorated on the Thiepval Monument. Born Morton Lincolnshire 4 May 1885.

I am interested in what the battalion was doing that day etc.

This is my first post so treat me gently please!

Steve

Hi,

I have all the Lincoln's war diaries, if you wish to pm me with what you need I shall dig them out for you.

REgards

Nick

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SK

The Medal Roll which includes No.40077 (4508) Pte. James Lawson 1/5th Battalion, later 2nd Battalion.

DW

DW,

I see the medal roll on the forum, thanks very much for this.

I tried to send you a PM as requested but you are so busy you have reached capacity!

Regards,

Steve

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Hi,

I have all the Lincoln's war diaries, if you wish to pm me with what you need I shall dig them out for you.

REgards

Nick

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Nick,

Thanks for the offer on the War Diaries for the Lincolnshire regiment. I would like to take you up on the offer for the period when James Lawson went to France with the 1/5th.Unfortunately I don't know when that was.

I am informed he joined up November/December 1915. As I said in an earlier post I know when he was transferred to the 2nd and have read the dairies from that date ( 24 September 1916) until he died on 19 October 1916. Do you have any idea when the 1/5th travelled to France please? I have been informed that the 2/5 went on 26 August 1915 before he joined up.

Regards,

Steve

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Steve,

The 1/5th went to France in march 1915, the 2/5th in 1917.

The draft of 1/5th men that James went to France with, for whatever reason remained as 1/5th men despite never actually serving with that battalion in France.

Jim

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Steve,

The 1/5th went to France in march 1915, the 2/5th in 1917.

The draft of 1/5th men that James went to France with, for whatever reason remained as 1/5th men despite never actually serving with that battalion in France.

Jim

I seem to remember something like this coming up before. I think it was something to do with men serving in Ireland with the 2/5th who were sent to France, though listed as going to the 1/5th on the Medal Roll.

Or medals being stamped to men of the Lincolnshire Regiment, though never actually serving with the Lincolnshires in France.

The Monmouths seem to come to mind.

It is some time ago, however.

DW

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Steve,

The 1/5th went to France in march 1915, the 2/5th in 1917.

The draft of 1/5th men that James went to France with, for whatever reason remained as 1/5th men despite never actually serving with that battalion in France.

Jim

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Jim,

Thanks for the clarification, you might be interested in DW's later post where he has a view on my confusion over 1/5 battalion and 2/5 battalion. Do you mean that on arriving in France the 1/5 assimilated into the 2nd Battalion immediately and therefore my interest in looking at a War Diary for 1/5 from when they came to France is flawed?

I have downloaded the War Diary of the 2nd Battalion from National Archives and can see what they were up to from when James went to France until his death, should I settle for that?

Regards,

Steve

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