aengland Posted 17 May , 2011 Share Posted 17 May , 2011 I have a casualty that I amr esearching by name of Rifleman B/201568 Alfred John Riches, posted to 2nd / 10th Bn London Regiment Rifle Brigade (formerly with the Royal Army Service Corps). He was killed in action on 25th April 1918 and he is commemorated on the Pozieres Memorial Can any kind soul please tell me what the Unit was doing on that day? (does anyone have access to the War Diary please? Although I am going to the NA in the summer I could do with this information long before then), and where was the Unit on that day? Indeed any information would be very helpful and gratefully received Thank you Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 17 May , 2011 Share Posted 17 May , 2011 Andrew 58 Division was the formation that 2/10 Londons fought with. On 25 April 1918 they were in the Action at Villers-Bretonneaux. The War Diary WO95/3009 is digital and downloadable from the NA Catalogue for 3.50,but make sure you get the piece you need,there are two,one is much earlier than that you need. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 17 May , 2011 Share Posted 17 May , 2011 They sustained 24 killed that day, 17 are on the Pozieres Memorial which may indicate they were not able to be recovered from the battlefield. ADAMS JB 40907 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE ALLEN JP 46423 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE BAILEY A 48270 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE BENNETT CT S/34026 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE BIRD HN S/32131 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE CANFIELD GW S/36244 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE CHANDLER J 32069 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE CLARKE JC S/6369 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE COWLING BWK 40943 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE GIDDENS L P/732 POSTED TO 2ND/10TH BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE GRIFFIN W Z/257 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE HACKER WH S/20894 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE HARRIS WE S/36407 POSTED TO 2ND/10TH BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE JOBSON E S/18428 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE LOGAN SR 6748 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE MASKELL F B/202016 POSTED TO 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE NEWMAN A S/4005 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE POOLE WJ B/201757 POSTED TO 2ND/10TH BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE RICHES AJ B/201568 POSTED TO 2ND/10TH BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE SALMONS J 46408 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE SIMMONS AJ 46410 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE TAYLOR PJ S/36571 2ND/10TH BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE WALSH A 48258 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE WIGLEY HA S/10689 2ND BN 25/04/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE Rifleman CT Terrey of the 1st/8th also appears to be killed that day, on the Pozieres Memorial, so he may have been part of those lost as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aengland Posted 18 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 18 May , 2011 Dear 'Sotonmate' and 'KevinW4' Thanks very much indeed for your help.... great information. I'll get the war diary and I shall be away. I shall also track down the 7 of the 24 that are not commemorated at Pozieres and possibly visit their graves this summer. Thank you Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POC Posted 19 May , 2011 Share Posted 19 May , 2011 Here we go with the confusions again ....... The 2/10th London's are not rifle brigade but london regiment, see below 2/9th (County of London) Battalion (Queen Victoria's Rifles) Formed in London in August 1914. Moved in November to Crowborough where placed under orders of 2/2nd London Brigade in 2/1st London Division. Moved to Ipswich in June 1915 and formation retitled as 175th Brigade in 58th (2/1st London) Division. Moved on to Bromeswell Heath in May 1916 and then to Longbridge Deverell in July. 4 February 1917 : landed at Le Havre. 6 February 1918 : absorbed by 1/9th Bn. 2/10th (County of London) Battalion (Hackney Rifles) Formed in London in September 1914. Record same as 2/9th Bn but was not disbanded. If I recall correctly there were 25 battalions in the Rifle Brigade. I am sure someone will know the number blocks used for the 2/10th London's and I think they will not have a letter prefix. It seems to be that the numbers given above with the letter prefix are rifle brigade not 2/10th London's. Could be wrong, so maybe we can thrash this out definitively once and for all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POC Posted 19 May , 2011 Share Posted 19 May , 2011 Information from The Long, Long Trail gives the history of the 10th Bn Rifle Brigade as 10th (Service) Battalion Formed at Winchester in September 1914 as part of K2 and attached to 59th Brigade in 20th (Light) Division. Moved to Blackdown, going on in February 1915 to Witley and then in April to Hamilton Camp (Stonehenge). 21 July 1915 : landed at Boulogne. 5 February 1918 : disbanded at La Clytte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aengland Posted 20 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2011 Thanks for your help POC, although now I am somewhat confused! the CWGC has him as Name:RICHES, ALFRED JOHNInitials:A JNationality:United KingdomRank:RiflemanRegiment/Service:Rifle BrigadeSecondary Regiment:London RegimentSecondary Unit Text:posted to 2nd/10th Bn.Date of Death:25/04/1918Service No:B/201568Casualty Type:Commonwealth War DeadGrave/Memorial Reference:Panel 81 to 84.Memorial:POZIERES MEMORIAL and so was he London Regiment (as you confidently state at the start)? or was he Rifle Brigade as you allude to later as he has a letter prefix to his Army number?......... (but cannot be 10th Rifle Brigade as they were disbanded in February 1918). So can I confidentally go with 2/10th (County of London) Battalion (Hackney Rifles)? and if so where does the Rifle Brigade link come in? Confused of Norfolk i.e. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted 20 May , 2011 Share Posted 20 May , 2011 During the night of 24/25 April 1918 2/10 London Regiment supported 9/London Regiment in successfully retaking Hangard Wood lost on the morning of 24 April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 24 May , 2011 Share Posted 24 May , 2011 (edited) Confusion, what confusion, Not sure how the 10th Rifle Brigade even came into the equation. the 10th London Regiment were a territorial battalion of the Rifle Brigade!!!!!! Your man was ex T4/059312, Driver in the R.A.S.C. The B-6 figure serial number started appearing in late September 1916 as replacements after the losses suffered by the Rifle Brigade in the 20th Division on the 3/9/16, A-6 figure serial numbers in the KRRC, these were soldiers from different regiments that were placed into the RB's or KRRC as replacements after 3/9/16. Most were base grabs. A lot of Rifle Brigade men started appearing in the Regiments territorial battalions towards the end of the war, sorry early 1918 onwards, 5th, 8th, 10th, 17th, 28th London Regiment especially, the 33rd London Regiment fought under the cap badge of the Rifle Brigade. Your man Alfred John Riches also served in the 2/5th London Regiment, yet another territorial battalion of the Rifle Brigade, before moving to the 2/10th London Regiment. No Rifle Brigade battalion is shown on the medal rolls but listed as Rifle Brigade Depot. Andy Edited 2 May , 2019 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 Andy, so to clear up any "confusion", how do the casualties as shown in Post #3 come to be shown as "Rifle Brigade"? Are they fellow casualties of Rifleman Alfred John Riches or not? It looked clear cut that they were, then POC and you say they are NOT Rifle Brigade!! If you had read the postings, you would have realised where the Rifle Brigade came into the equation, as per the CWGC records! Can Andrew take it that Riches (and the others listed) were killed during the re taking of Hangard Wood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 Kevin, Yes I can see where the Rifle Brigade came in and know the sequence and time lines of this number prefix quite well having been looking into them for sometime now, and, if you read my posting you will see I asked where did the 10th Rifle Brigade come into the equation!! not the Rifle Brigade. With regard to the men you highlight for that day, No, they are not fellow casualties of John Riches, or rather yes in that they died on the same day but most were from the 2nd Rifle Brigade and not the 2/10th London's the 2/10th London's listed were casualties from Hangard Wood, which John had been attached to. The 2nd RB were in action at Villers-Bretonneux not at Hangard Wood. Adams, J.B., 40907, 2nd Rifle Brigade Allen, J.P., 46423, 2nd RB Bailey, A., ex 10th Yorkshire L.I. - 2nd RB Bennett, C.T., S/34026, 2nd RB Bird, H.N., S/32131, 2nd RB Canfield, G.W., S/36244, 2nd RB Chandler, J., 32068, 2nd RB and should be S/32069 no such number as 32069 in the Regiment Clarke, J.C., S/6369, 12th, 11th & 2nd RB Cowling, B.W.K., 40943, 2nd RB Giddens, L., P/732, 16th, Depot & 2/10th Londons Griffen, W., Z/257, 3rd, 1st & 2nd RB Hacker, W.H., S/20894, 1st & 2nd RB Harris, W.E., S/36407, Depot - attached 2/10th Londons Jobson, E., S/18428, 16th & 2nd RB Logan, S.R., 6748, ex R.A.O.C. 6167 - 2nd RB Maskell, F., B/202016, ex R.A.S.C. T3/094283 - attached 8th Londons Newman, A., S/4005, 13th, 10th & 2nd RB Poole, W.J., B/201757, ex R.A.S.C. T3/027515 - 2/10th Londons and so on. Andy Kevin, an addition for you. These men were Rifle Brigade men, but, attached/posted to one the the Territorial battalions of the Regiment, the 2/10th Londons in this case. They are listed as Rifle Brigade men as this was their Regiment although there were plenty of these men transferred to these battalions taking up London Regiment numbers. In the Rifle Brigade medal rolls you will find page after page of these men in 1918 being moved to the territorial battalions, with most/lot of them keeping their RB number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 25 May , 2011 Share Posted 25 May , 2011 Nice to see you keeping the Rifles (with their various guises) in check Andy. More than I seem to be able to do with their modern offspring from 5th Rifles in school. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aengland Posted 17 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2011 Just remembered that I posted this, and having checked up on what happened to it, found the posts added since I last replied....... thanks to you all for the additional information, I greatly appreciate it. My apologies for not thanking you before today Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themajor Posted 17 July , 2011 Share Posted 17 July , 2011 Information from The Long, Long Trail gives the history of the 10th Bn Rifle Brigade as 10th (Service) Battalion Formed at Winchester in September 1914 as part of K2 and attached to 59th Brigade in 20th (Light) Division. Moved to Blackdown, going on in February 1915 to Witley and then in April to Hamilton Camp (Stonehenge). 21 July 1915 : landed at Boulogne. 5 February 1918 : disbanded at La Clytte. I'm sitting at my computer and have my Grandfather's service record in front of me: Colour Sergeant Frederick Victor Olliffe 2641 390523 9th London Regiment His name is spelt incorrectly on his record card-Oliffe; but I've almost come to expect such from military record keeping! His brother, Ernest Percival Olliffe went missing in action with the Honourable Artillery Company at the battle for Reutel, and has his name spelt incorrectly and his service number also differs between the memorial one and his record card. Whilst I was typing, my Mother called and I read her the post of 18th May detailing the movements of the 2/9th County of London (Queen Victoria Rifles) Crowborough in Norfolk/Walcott/Great Yarmouth was where my family used to holiday after WW2, as my Mother remembers that my Grandfather had fond memories of his stay there. In Ipswich the Battalion was apparently billeted with the civilian population, my Grandfather staying with a family named "Matcham" who were renowned for breeding and showing Great Danes and with whom he remained in contact until his death at the age of 52 in 1939 as a result of illness attributable to his WW1 service. A Madge Matcham attended his funeral, and was instrumental in convincing my Mother to follow her dream of breeding and showing dogs. The result in Canada in latter years was "Worrindale Kennels", world champion Wire Fox Terriers!. Bromeswell Heath and Longbridge Deverell are also mentioned by my Grandfather. I have a letter written on November 11th, 1918 from my Grandfather stating that all the bells in the village where they were located were ringing, and he and his fellow soldiers were in a state of shock to realize that they had survived! He sid they were very quiet and subdued just giving silent thanks for their deliverance. If anyone has anything further to add about the Q.V.R.sand my Grandfather's service, or that of his brother's I would be most grateful. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerd.deboeck Posted 25 August , 2011 Share Posted 25 August , 2011 If anyone has anything further to add about the Q.V.R.sand my Grandfather's service, or that of his brother's I would be most grateful. Ian Last name Olliffe First name(s) Ernest Percival Coy C rank Pte Medal Index admitted 3/01/1917 overseas 20/03/1917 casualty KIA Reutel 9/10/1917 Comment Regt. no. 910 Age 33 Grave/ Memorial Ref. Panel 7. Cemetery/ Memorial Name TYNE COT MEMORIAL Additional information CWGC Son of Percival R. Olliffe, and the late Marian Olliffe. I've got a paper on the Battle of Reutel Oct. 9th. I've you provide me with an e-mail, I can send it to you. Here's a Google map with an overlay of a 1917 map dated oct 1917 of the location (detail of IWP map M5_239) Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 23 September , 2017 Share Posted 23 September , 2017 Hi My Granfathers brother , William Frederick Partridge served ( according to the records I have found) in 2 10th London Regiment Rifle Brigade His service number was 49216 The records show he died in France and Flanders? on Sept 7th 1918 , he would have been 18 can anybody out there add any flesh to the bones of the story he was a twin , any info on his brother Bertie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 February , 2019 Share Posted 7 February , 2019 Hello, This is my first time on this forum, so I hope I'm responding to Chris Partridge's message. I too have a distant relative who served first with the 2/10 London regiment rifle brigade, Thomas Francis English, service number 49197, so he would have enlisted not too long before William Frederick Partridge. I think the unit was disbanded (in February 1918?) and he was transfered to the Prince of Wales civil Service regiment (2/15). He died of wounds on 25 August 1818, aged 18 and is buried in Daours cemetery. I have all the information about war graves, soldiers effects etc... but cannot find any record of him. I was wondering if you had any records indicating as to when your great uncle William Frederick joined the regiment? That would help me to discover when Thomas F. English joined too. Both young men were obviously well under the age of 18 when they joined, because they had to undergo some training at least before leaving for the Western Front. Does anyone know if there was a war diary for the 2nd/15th Battalion London Rifles (Prince of Wales Own Civil Service Rifles)? It was with this regiment that he was killed in 1918. Thank you for any enlightenment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 February , 2019 Share Posted 7 February , 2019 (edited) Since writing my message, I've discovered that I should now be looking at another 'topic'. Private T.F.English was transferred to 2/15 POW civil service rifles which, in July 1918, joined the 90th brigade of the 30th Division , and I've just found the reference to the War Diary at the period during which he was killed : WO 95/2340/3 : 2/15 Battalion London Regiment (Civil Service Rifles) 1918 June - 1919 Oct. The diary is viewable on the 'Ancestry' website.PS - I don't get what the notification 'hide' with a tick or a cross means... Edited 7 February , 2019 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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