bandolier but what?

[Muerrisch]

attached photo Albert Miners 2nd RWF dressed for mounted duty ....... please which pattern bandolier?

Connection with 14 18 is that he served with great distinction and died as a CSM

herewith

[Michael Johnson]

attached photo Albert Miners 2nd RWF dressed for mounted duty ....... please which pattern bandolier?

Connection with 14 18 is that he served with great distinction and died as a CSM

herewith

I don't know the pattern, but it is the pattern used prior to charger-loading Lee-Enfields. Single rounds, with the flaps to keep them from falling out, as happened with some of the early Mills web bandoliers in South Africa.

[wainfleet]

Umpteen different varieties of bandolier were tried out in the Boer War, and this looks like one of them, as MJ has indicated. Web bandoliers were made with and without flaps, the flaps being made of either web or leather. It's hard to be sure here whether the whole thing is leather or just the flaps. If it's all-leather then it would be quite a rarity, but I suspect it is half-and-half - it very much resembles a web-leather hybrid that I saw some years ago which was issued to a numbered IY company, and thus used in South Africa.

[Grovetown]

The 1888 (more properly, 1889) is a development of the 1882 - and had two tab closures.

It's a bit of a minefield it seems...

Bandolier thread

Cheers,

GT.

PS/ My post looks a bit random now - but was a response to Frogsmile's now deleted post identifying this as an 1888...

Edited 15 May , 2011 by Grovetown

[4thGordons]

Not sure on the pattern but I think I have one similar -- but with shorter pouches.

I have never been able to determine a pattern

Chris

[Muerrisch]

Gentlemen, I knew I could count on you.

Its a lovely shot of a lovely man:

"my dutiful sergeant-major"

"exemplary"

keen churchman

"sober, utterly reliable"

wrote superb letters home

promised a commission

and killed

RIP Albert

[TonyE]

Chris! Couldn't you find some Mark VI to put in it?

Cheers

Tony

[4thGordons]

Chris! Couldn't you find some Mark VI to put in it?

Cheers

Tony

Sorry about that - no. I only have the one!

Chris

[FROGSMILE]

attached photo Albert Miners 2nd RWF dressed for mounted duty ....... please which pattern bandolier?

Connection with 14 18 is that he served with great distinction and died as a CSM

herewith

Despite much searching I have not been able to find which specific pattern it is, but it does seem likely to be a variant of the Bandolier Mounted Infantry Mark 1 from 1888-89. There were a number of pattern variations over the succeeding years and it seems that it might be one of them, given that it is not of the Naval 1901 pattern, nor of the 1903 Army pattern. It is noticeable that, like the 1889 pattern, it is for the single rounds of a Lee Metford / Long Lee without charger loading and that each section contained 10 rounds. There appear to be either 4 or 5 sections making a total of either 40 or 50 rounds. I think the former is the most likely. The leather flaps are similar to the 1889 pattern except that they have only a single ball stud and securing strap, as opposed to two. Interestingly there seems to be two holes on the securing strap, one for when a section is charged with its 10 rounds and the other for when the section is empty, thus telling at a glance whether the section contains rounds, or not, without having to pick it up and heft its weight. In the photograph Albert has secured each section to the tighter extent as no rounds are carried. I do not think it is a cotton web bandolier with leather flaps. These tended to be made in smaller sections each containing 5 rounds with a flap over. It also does not look like the version offered by the Mills Equipment Company that was used by the Canadians and some British units.

[Muerrisch]

Company Sergeant-Major 5575 Albert Miners. Albert was described at his death as “a most dutiful soldier”. His service documents are badly damaged. They seem to read that at the age of 19 years he had spent some time in the Militia, regiment unknown, and had attempted to join the Army Ordnance Corps, the Royal Fusiliers and the Welsh Regiment before fate brought him to the regiment that he came to serve so faithfully. His civilian job in Swansea had been as a carpenter, so that when he enlisted (at 5 feet 5 ¾ inches and 113 lbs, a Church of England man) on 9th February 1898, and had been drilled, he was appointed as a pioneer. He was transferred to 2nd RWF, H company, on 1st December 1898 and was drafted to Hongkong on SS Avoca. He did not serve in the Boxer Rebellion Campaign. The accompanying photograph was taken in Hongkong and shows him dressed for mounted duty. This would either be with the battalion transport or the small mounted infantry section. He was appointed lance-corporal on 9th March 1900 and promoted swiftly to full Sergeant on 29th March 1905, gaining along the way the Army third, second and first-class certificates of education. He was subject of an Inquiry as a corporal when he fell, whilst marching at night with his company, into a “khud”, suffering a contused scalp, for which he was found not culpable.

He sailed with the unit when it was posted to India, and wrote long and informative letters Home to relatives and friends. In one dated 9th May 1907 it is clear that he missed his Church activity at Home, and he added that his own Church Parades in Agra were attended with rifle and 20 rounds of ammunition. Albert said that he was to be stand-in for his Colour Sergeant while the latter was at the School of Musketry “without pay, because it will be a good recommendation for me”. Major Delme-Radcliffe wrote of him at this time that his conduct was very good, and that he was thoroughly honest, strictly sober, trustworthy and reliable, with a 1st Class Cerificate, a good clerk and accountant. Nevertheless he fell foul of the excitable Sergeant-Major Murphy regarding inattention to duty regarding a Sergeants’ Mess matter, and was reprimanded, but this appears to be his only blemish. Returning with the battalion to The Verne, at Portland, he was promoted to Colour-Sergeant on 1st April 1914 and appointed Company Quartermaster Sergeant, B Company, dealing with “pay, equipment, clothing and rations. It makes a big difference in my pay”.

Albert Miners went to France on 11th August 1914 and served without a scratch until his death as a Warrant Officer Class II company sergeant-major of B Company on 23rd July 1916 on the Somme. His Military Medal was gazetted on 11th October.

According to his obituary he was a fine type of a true Christian who always loved his Church and tried to carry out its principles in his daily life. The obituary also noted that he had been promised a commission: this is eminently possible as he was in every way qualified.

[TonyE]

Sorry about that - no. I only have the one!

Chris

I'll bring you a couple of full chargers next year at St.Louis. Remind me!

Cheers

tony

[FROGSMILE]

Company Sergeant-Major 5575 Albert Miners. Albert was described at his death as "a most dutiful soldier". His service documents are badly damaged. They seem to read that at the age of 19 years he had spent some time in the Militia, regiment unknown, and had attempted to join the Army Ordnance Corps, the Royal Fusiliers and the Welsh Regiment before fate brought him to the regiment that he came to serve so faithfully. His civilian job in Swansea had been as a carpenter, so that when he enlisted (at 5 feet 5 ¾ inches and 113 lbs, a Church of England man) on 9th February 1898, and had been drilled, he was appointed as a pioneer. He was transferred to 2nd RWF, H company, on 1st December 1898 and was drafted to Hongkong on SS Avoca. He did not serve in the Boxer Rebellion Campaign. The accompanying photograph was taken in Hongkong and shows him dressed for mounted duty. This would either be with the battalion transport or the small mounted infantry section. He was appointed lance-corporal on 9th March 1900 and promoted swiftly to full Sergeant on 29th March 1905, gaining along the way the Army third, second and first-class certificates of education. He was subject of an Inquiry as a corporal when he fell, whilst marching at night with his company, into a "khud", suffering a contused scalp, for which he was found not culpable.

He sailed with the unit when it was posted to India, and wrote long and informative letters Home to relatives and friends. In one dated 9th May 1907 it is clear that he missed his Church activity at Home, and he added that his own Church Parades in Agra were attended with rifle and 20 rounds of ammunition. Albert said that he was to be stand-in for his Colour Sergeant while the latter was at the School of Musketry "without pay, because it will be a good recommendation for me". Major Delme-Radcliffe wrote of him at this time that his conduct was very good, and that he was thoroughly honest, strictly sober, trustworthy and reliable, with a 1st Class Cerificate, a good clerk and accountant. Nevertheless he fell foul of the excitable Sergeant-Major Murphy regarding inattention to duty regarding a Sergeants' Mess matter, and was reprimanded, but this appears to be his only blemish. Returning with the battalion to The Verne, at Portland, he was promoted to Colour-Sergeant on 1st April 1914 and appointed Company Quartermaster Sergeant, B Company, dealing with "pay, equipment, clothing and rations. It makes a big difference in my pay".

Albert Miners went to France on 11th August 1914 and served without a scratch until his death as a Warrant Officer Class II company sergeant-major of B Company on 23rd July 1916 on the Somme. His Military Medal was gazetted on 11th October.

According to his obituary he was a fine type of a true Christian who always loved his Church and tried to carry out its principles in his daily life. The obituary also noted that he had been promised a commission: this is eminently possible as he was in every way qualified.

That's a very interesting resume that is highly evocative for me personally in that I can see lots of parallels from my own experiences in the same regiment. Thank you for posting it.