Rory Stephens Posted 8 May , 2011 Share Posted 8 May , 2011 Help needed I plan to visit Salonica later on in the year and wondered if anyone out there had any campaign maps of the area that would greatly assist me in my travels. Also if any members have visited the battlefields and can recommend any places to stay this would be fantastic, as I have to confess it is an area I know nothing about. Many thanks Rory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 21 May , 2011 Share Posted 21 May , 2011 Rory, having just got back I can say that it's an amazing area but I'm not sure that it's one I'd visit on my own. You'll need to speak Greek fairly well and, if you cross the border into FYROM to look at the Doiran front, you'll need more than a smattering of Macedonian/Serbo-Croat as well and possibly even Turkish. The group I was with visited quite a few places where an intimate knowledge the the local geography was vital. Seeing Grande Couronné from the road is one thing. Standing by the Devil's Eye is quite another but I would never have reached it on my own. The Salonika Campaign Society has published a disk of maps that are very good but aren't comprehensive, not having much on the Struma Valley or between Salonika and the XII Corps front. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 22 May , 2011 Share Posted 22 May , 2011 Rory, I daresay you realise this already, but Salonika is something of a misnomer, as the action took place well away from the city. It should really be called the Macedonian Campaign (though that name carries awkward historical and political baggage), as the battle areas cover a huge swathe of northern Greece, and part of what was Serbia at the start of WW1, and became Yugoslavia post-war. Parts of the front continue to be sentitive areas where permission to explore needs to be sanctioned by the Greek military authorities. Can you say more about your current plans? Then we might be able to give some pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Stephens Posted 23 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2011 Rory, having just got back I can say that it's an amazing area but I'm not sure that it's one I'd visit on my own. You'll need to speak Greek fairly well and, if you cross the border into FYROM to look at the Doiran front, you'll need more than a smattering of Macedonian/Serbo-Croat as well and possibly even Turkish. The group I was with visited quite a few places where an intimate knowledge the the local geography was vital. Seeing Grande Couronné from the road is one thing. Standing by the Devil's Eye is quite another but I would never have reached it on my own. The Salonika Campaign Society has published a disk of maps that are very good but aren't comprehensive, not having much on the Struma Valley or between Salonika and the XII Corps front. Keith Thanks Keith for those pointers. The plan would be for me and 2 others to go out, possibly around October time. I am really interested in the Campaign and nothing quite beats being out on the ground. I dont speak Greek or any of the other languages mentioned it has to be said, so perhaps a visit through an agent over there is a better bet, I am not sure. Food for thought anyway. Many thanks Rory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Stephens Posted 23 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2011 Thanks Kate, Yes I realised the term Salonika is a bit of a misnomer, but I was not aware that the area is quite as inaccessible as you describe. I really had only hoped to go there in our winter for a short recce with 2 other people as this is a campaign I have recently become very interested in and having visited the Western Front many times and Gallipoli I wanted to add it to my battlefield portfolio. Rory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 23 May , 2011 Share Posted 23 May , 2011 Rory, You may wish to contact Forum member Salonika. He is Romeo Drobarov, who runs Salonika battlefield tours. You may be able to engage him as a guide, depending on availability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 23 May , 2011 Share Posted 23 May , 2011 Rory, I really do urge you to go with a group. I know there's a Holt's tour going in September this year and there will almost certainly be a tour, organised through the SCS, going in May 2012. Forum Pal Alan Wakefield organised the SCS tour I've just got back from. Another organisation is this one, run by a chap who helped guide our tour and who is both knowledgeable and excellent company. This is a very different area to the Western Front. As Kate wrote, some areas are very sensitive politically and you can't just cross the border willy-nilly like you would between France and Belgium. I understand that you can't take a Greek hire-car into FYROM, for example, which could put a crimp in your travel. Without wanting to sound insulting, I think you'd miss a lot more than you'd see if you went alone. I was out there for 10 days and we crammed an awful lot into that time, including researching some areas. We "found" the fort at Dova Tepe, the Hodza Redoubt and two AA positions, one between Ardzan & Causica and another near the top of Coles Kop. We also visited the site of 99th AA Section, my Grandfather's unit, which is now a cemetery but from which you can still see what a great spot it was for AA work despite the encroachment of the city from the south. Another quick point: you don't need to be an athlete but you will need to be reasonably fit. Ruth and I started going to the gym last October (neither of us is built for speed!) and we started walking 6-10 miles every weekend for a couple of months before we went out. That paid dividends. None of the walks was done at a silly pace and breaks were taken regularly but the weather was quite hot, some of the paths got pretty steep and it usually took some hours to walk to the destination - and back again! We were walking about 10km a day, which doesn't sound much but the lack of flat ground, on the XIIth Corps front in particular, meant it felt a lot longer. Nearly all of it was on tracks and unmade roads so you'll need hiking boots and kit to make the most of your visit. I don't think I can count the number of times the guides shot off the track into the undergrowth to show us a bunker of some sort or a trench and the last part of the climb to the Devil's Eye is quite a scramble. You can also expect to be completely gob-smacked by the amount of wildlife and the wild flowers, even if you're not into that kind of thing. I had an eagle fly within about six feet of me at the top of Coles Kop, as it worked a thermal. I won't forget that in a hurry! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 23 May , 2011 Share Posted 23 May , 2011 Yes I realised the term Salonika is a bit of a misnomer, but I was not aware that the area is quite as inaccessible as you describe. Rory, I can well understand your enthusiasm to get there. My grandfather spent two months on the Western Front, as one of the first batches of British troops on the Somme sector in the autumn of 1915. Following his footsteps there was easy. However, he then spent three years (from November 1915) in Macedonia. Until recently it has been virtually impossible to follow his trail there, as the Doiran battlefield was locked behind the Iron Curtain, and much of the rest was (and still is) on the fringe of a NATO front abutting formerly hostile powers in Yugoslavia and Bulgaria. Add to that the civil war in Yugoslavia, and Greece's continuing frosty relationship with FYROM, and I'm sure you will appreciate how glad I was to get there at last, and the debt I owe to the Salonika Campaign Society, and especially to the expertise of SCS chairman and tour leader Alan Wakefield, Adrian Wright in Salonika, and Romeo Drobarov in FYROM for making our tours so easy to enjoy. As Keith says, you will get much more from your trip if you contact someone who not only knows his WW1 facts, but also knows the languages needed to deal with the authorities and locals, and the current state of play on the Greek frontier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 23 May , 2011 Share Posted 23 May , 2011 and the debt I owe to the Salonika Campaign Society, and especially to the expertise of SCS chairman and tour leader Alan Wakefield, Adrian Wright in Salonika, and Romeo Drobarov in FYROM for making our tours so easy to enjoy. Here! Here! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 23 May , 2011 Share Posted 23 May , 2011 Rory - having made two trips that were led by Alan Wakefield (messed up Bath City, Oxford Utd and Barnet fan) and Romeo Drobarov (knowlegible and speaks excellent English) I can only endorse what has already been said by Keith and Kate. If you cant wait until Alan's next tour in 2012, then to take anything out of the trip I advise you engage Romeo as your guide. If you only want to visit cemeteries then fine, but if you want to explore and see the Salonican battlefields and get the best out of your time and money, then Alan and/or Romeo are essential. You should also join the very good value for money SCS. Regards, Jonathan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 23 May , 2011 Share Posted 23 May , 2011 Sorry Rory, I forgot to include your request for maps in my answer The Salonika Campaign Society has recently produced an excellent collecton of Salonika trench maps on CD. More details can be found on the SCS site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Stephens Posted 26 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2011 Thank you all for taking so much time out to give me such valuable advice on my proposed visit to the Salonica battlefields. I certainly would have had no idea of the political connotations or the language restrictions without your help. I am more than a casual visitor and a seasoned walker, and certainly want far more out of my trip than just to visit cemeteries. I want to explore and discover new battlefields, in a less frequently visited place and the only way to understand the ground and the fighting is on foot. Thanks for the advice on guides and the Salonica Campaign Society. That certainly sounds like an excellent organisation and the maps on CD will prove most useful. Kate and Keith in particular thanks again for all your efforts to steer me in the right direction and on reflection a guided visit would now seem the most appropriate course of action. Rory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awakefield Posted 26 May , 2011 Share Posted 26 May , 2011 Hi Rory Just to let you know that myself and Romeo Drobarov are almost certain to run another Salonika tour next year - late April - early May. This will take in both Doiran and Kosturino amongst other locations. If you are interested in being kept informed of planning for this PM me and I'll add you to the email list. If this is too long to wait contact Romeo direct as others have suggested. He can fix up a bespoke tour but you may have to wait a little while until his wife lets him escape from nappy changing and other delights of new fatherhood! Hope also to welcome you as a member of the SCS in the near future. Regards ALAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usa2uk Posted 2 June , 2011 Share Posted 2 June , 2011 I was out there for 10 days and we crammed an awful lot into that time, including researching some areas. We "found" the fort at Dova Tepe, the Hodza Redoubt and two AA positions, one between Ardzan & Causica and another near the top of Coles Kop.....I don't think I can count the number of times the guides shot off the track into the undergrowth to show us a bunker of some sort or a trench and the last part of the climb to the Devil's Eye is quite a scramble. Hi Keith. My thanks as well to everyone that posted. I am fascinated by this front, and for a number of reasons, one that I don't think I will ever be able to visit. Would you be able to share some photos from your trip?? Thanks. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 2 June , 2011 Share Posted 2 June , 2011 That's certainly on the cards, Jason, but I have hundreds to choose from! In time I intend to produce a web-page covering the trip but here are a few to be going on with. Click HERE to be taken to the album. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed ROBINSON Posted 1 January , 2013 Share Posted 1 January , 2013 Hello Keith, I’ve had a look at the photos that you took, very nice. I’ve been doing a bit of reading on the campaign as I have a couple of medal groups to soldiers who were there. The view from the Devils eye explains a lot. No description can beat a photo Cheers Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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