Imperial German Army sidearms?

[RangeRover]

I have recently been very fortunate to pick up a 1906 DWM Gewehr 98.

It becomes the latest addition to my admittedly small collection of Great War firearms.Out of interests sake, I thought I'd post a picture here showing the relative lengths of the Gew to a Ross Mk III (middle) and my Canadian-marked SMLE. The length of the Ross is quite something. It is longer than the Gew and longer than an MLE as well.

To my question, though. I have a Canadian-marked S&W Hand Ejector Second Model in .455 to represent the Entente so would, eventually, like to get a similar representative sidearm for the Central powers. A P08 (Luger) or a C96 "Broomhandle" Mauser come to mind, but to be accurate, would it need to be a "Red 9" Mauser in 9mm, or were the .30 Mauser versions also utilized? What other sidearms were in use by the Imperial Army during the conflict?

Thanks in advance.

Oh, the Gew came with a unit-marked disc in the buttstock. I've posted an inquiry about the Battalion indicated on the disk in the Units and Formations forum.

[Tom W.]

A P08 (Luger) or a C96 "Broomhandle" Mauser come to mind, but to be accurate, would it need to be a "Red 9" Mauser in 9mm, or were the .30 Mauser versions also utilized?What other sidearms were in use by the Imperial Army during the conflict?

The 9mm Mauser C96 was introduced in 1916, so both calibers of weapon were used in the war.

Other official pistols:

1. Lange P08

2. Reichsrevolver M1879 (10.6mm)

3. Reichsrevolver M1883 (10.6mm)

4. Mauser M1910 semi-auto (6.35mm)

5. Mauser M1914 semi-auto (7.65mm)

[wainfleet]

Nice pictures. I hadn't realised the Ross was such a long rifle. Not very convenient for the trenches on that account alone, never mind the delicate mechanism.

[Old Tom]

First rtime I have seen a picture of the Ross which I had understood simply as a Canadian rifle, accurate but not robust and replaced by SMLE as soon as possible. It looks as if it's rear sight is mounted in the breech area. Was it an aperture? Was it an early aperture sighted rifle?

Old Tom

[RangeRover]

Yes, the rear sight is an aperture sight, built by HW Cooey in Ontario, and mounted to the receiver bridge. 1/16th aperture.

Here are some photos.

The same sight was also mounted to a bracket and used on, at least Canadian, No2 Mk IV .22 training rifles.

[4thGordons]

Nice pictures. I hadn't realised the Ross was such a long rifle. Not very convenient for the trenches on that account alone, never mind the delicate mechanism.

True enough - but it evens out a good deal when you add a bayonet.

and a Ross with a bayonet is actually 3 or 4 cm SHORTER than an SMLE with a P1907 bayonet.

They all pale in comparison to the Lebel / Berthier and Mosin-Nagant rifle and bayonet combinations. The effect can be seen here - even allowing for effect of the perspective from the wide angle.I tried to put the names on the tips of the respective bayonets

Comparative Lengths:

M1903----------1098mm + 406mm bayonet = 1504mm

ROSS----------1279mm + 260mm bayonet = 1539mm

MLE------------1257mm + 305mm bayonet = 1562mm

SMLE----------1132mm + 432mm bayonet = 1564mm (with P1907)

M1917/P14----1172mm + 432mm bayonet = 1604mm

M1891Nagant-1318mm + 450mm bayonet = 1768mm

GEW 98--------1250mm + 520mm bayonet = 1770mm (various length of bayo fitted, inc some shorter)

M1886/93------1307mm + 520mm bayonet = 1827mm

M1907/15------1306mm + 520mm bayonet = 1826mm

Measurements taken from Walter: Military Rifles of Two World Wars. 2003

Chris

Edited 30 April , 2011 by 4thGordons

[TonyE]

The rear sight on the Canadian Ross Mark III was a rather delicate affair, prone to damage. When the British ordered 100,000 Mark IIIB Ross rifles they specified a more robust rear sight, more akin to that used on the Pattern '14 rifle, although in a more triangular housing.

Regards

TonyE

[Pete1052]

The Prussian Army captured some Starr revolvers from the French in 1870 and altered their caliber for their own use as a secondary weapon. The Starr was a U.S. weapon of Civil War vintage sold as surplus to France. Starr was the third-largest maker of revolvers for the U.S. Army 1861-65, after Colt and Remington. I doubt many of them were in use in front-line units during the Great War, though the reserves may have had them. There were two models of Starrs, one double-action and the other single-action. The double-action one had a switch for one mode or the other which was a human factors problem, as in "which is it?"

[Old Tom]

Apologies for late acknowledgement. The close ups of the Ross rear sight and breech were interesting. They lead me to start another thread. Many thanks.

Old Tom