Medal entitlement

[flintwich]

My Great Grandfather, Henry (Harry) Turnbull, 4407, 1/8th Royal Scots was invalided with trench foot and discharged on 14 Mar 1916. There is a document on ancestry stating he was entitled to the British War medal and Victory medal, dated 1921. His brother, Thomas Turnbull, 5148, also 1/8th Royal Scots was killed in action in August 1916 and his MIC shows entitlement to the Victory medal and 1915 Star.

I assume both went to France in 1915 together, being in the same battalion but don't understand why they would be entitled to different medals.

Hopefully an easy answer to the discrepancy.

[Ken Lees]

Thomas's MIC showing entitlement to the 1914-15 Star and Victory Medal has been misread. There will be a ditto below the Victory Medal as he was also entitled to the British War Medal.

Harry may have a second MIC which shows his entitlement to the 1914-15 Star, if, as you say, they both went to France before the end of 1915. The reason for a second card is usually because the name was recorded slightly differently, perhaps with a middle initial, or mis-spelling of the surname on one card.

Ken

[flintwich]

Thomas's MIC showing entitlement to the 1914-15 Star and Victory Medal has been misread. There will be a ditto below the Victory Medal as he was also entitled to the British War Medal.

Harry may have a second MIC which shows his entitlement to the 1914-15 Star, if, as you say, they both went to France before the end of 1915. The reason for a second card is usually because the name was recorded slightly differently, perhaps with a middle initial, or mis-spelling of the surname on one card.

Ken

Thanks, Ken, used photoshop on the images and you are right enough, there are dittos and they both received the same medals.

There is an original MIC for Henry and the card dated 1921.

Thank you for your help

[Chris_Baker]

Henry's card shows entitlement to the 1914 Star, not the 1914-15 Star. It does not appear on the receipt card simply as the Stars were despatched separately and (usually) earlier. There would have been a similar card.

Having now seen it, Thomas's card shows entitlement to the 1914-15 Star. He went to France in August 1915, some nine months after Henry.

[dycer]

Al,

Your Grt/Grandfather was one of the original Battalion who left Haddington in 1914 thus receiving the 1914 Star.

He was discharged as his time as a Territorial had expired.

He would have been entitled to claim the Clasp and Roses as the Battalion is recognised as serving under enemy fire before 22/23 November 1914 but does not appear to have claimed them.

George

[flintwich]

Al,

Your Grt/Grandfather was one of the original Battalion who left Haddington in 1914 thus receiving the 1914 Star.

He was discharged as his time as Territorial had expired.

He would have been entitled to claim the Clasp and Roses as the Battalion is recognised as serving under enemy fire before 22/23 November 1914 but does not appear to have claimed them.

George

I'm of to visit the family this weekend and will try to see his medals and anything else they have on him.

Will act on all the advice given so far.

Thank you all

[KevinBattle]

The distinction between the 1914 Star and the 1914-15 Star is subtle but very important (at least for the survivors) as the 1914 Star (with Clasp on the ribbon above the medal, plus a small emblem "rose" to wear on the small medal ribbon strip) was required to establish entitlement to join the Old Contemptibles Association.

As mentioned, the soldier had to have been serving with a unit "in sound of the enemy's guns" before 23rd November 1914.

The requirement was that you had to submit a written claim, usually via your (ex) Commanding Officer, etc...

All were entitled to the British War and Victory medals if serving abroad in a Theatre of War (and some exceptional circumstances elsewhere) but before conscription was introduced, the men serving "voluntarily" were entitled to the 1914 or 1914-15 Star as well.

Hope that helps!

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

As mentioned, the soldier had to have been serving with a unit "in sound of the enemy's guns" before 23rd November 1914

NB Within Range of the German Artillery not Sound {The Guns could on occassion be heard in London!!!}

[dycer]

From the 8th Royal Scots History.

November 1914

"The first work of the Battalion was digging communication trenches.On the night of the 20th November 1914,four Companies went into the line for the first time in the La Brotillirie sector,the other Companies remaining at Fleurbaix.No.42,Sergeant D.Grieve,killed on the night of 15th November,was the first casualty."

George

[flintwich]

Didn't manage to see his medals but was asured the rose and clasp mmentioned before are not there.

Also told that he told the Army to "stuff" his 13/9 a week pension for trench foot (he lost a few toes due to it)

I was given something that he brought back from the war, a round metal disc, on one side souvenir 1914 European War.

On the other side, England France Russia Belgium v Germany Austria.

Any ideas ?

[flintwich]

Images of medallion