gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Hi hoping to find a war era Lee Enfield as a display piece. Found this one for around what i would like to pay. the owner kindly sent me theese pics of any markings abd the matal work. Could anyone tell me is this worth buying or should i sit on my hands a be patient for the first time in my life and wait for a better model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Can he send a pic of the whole piece and a close up on the wrist? That will give you a date and getting some overall shots will let us see if there are certain features hinting at Great War use or period production. However you will find that these rifles saw repairs and use of replacement parts. The serial number is P 2034 and is of Birmingham Small Arms manufacture. We need more pics. Many of the rifles however were used in service throughout the first half of the last century and were subject to replacement rear sights, cocking pieces, wood, barrels, nose caps, etc. If the rifle was produced in 1916, it could have had a replacement nose cap and refitted barrel from 1919 or 1932 etc. A rifle stamped on the wrist that was produced in 1916 and has all matching serial numbers is the safest bet to finding one of Great War vintage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 He has said there are no date stamps, Hence why im apprehensive Thanks Malc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Looks to be a commercial make issued to the Southern. Rhodesian. Govt. post War make. If you are looking for Great War vintage withhold from this purchase. Its a nice rifle by arms collecting standards though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 The Southern Rhodesian government was created officially in 1923 so the rifle was produced after the War for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 A rifle very very similar to this was posted on the Lee Enfield discussion board (gunboards forum) recently - although the markings were slightly different as was the serial IIRC It is a BSA made for a commercial contract (not British govt) hence the absence of cypher and the BSA trademark on the barrel. I believe the SRG is a marking for either the "Scotts Railway Guards" (South Africa) or perhaps Southern Rhodesia Government - but I am not certain It is a nice rifle for a Lee-Enfield collector but not really a typical WWI example if that is what you were wanting. If the price is reasonable it is one I would certainly like in my collection as commercial SMLEs are far less common than military ones. I will see if I can find a link to the other rifle and discussion of it. Chris Edit: SNAP! (where is the rifle located? Is it live or deactivated?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Malc, Chris has produced a handy dandy guide that will pretty much suit your needs in locating a Great War era rifle. SMLE I.D. link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Hi Alex Ok so its not war era but later how later are we talking is it/does it have all the right bits to be of the war era or is it completly wrong, iif it s a good collection piece is it worth buying to tied me over till i learn more and find a good example many thanks for your help Malc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Hey Malc, The model you have here is more or less the No. 1 Mk.III* which was a wartime expedient of the original SMLE design No.1 Mk.III. The Mk.III* deleted certain unnecessary features to hasten war production like the volley sites, windage adjustment, magazine cut-off etc. This model is a good representation of the that model which began production in late 1915. With a War era pattern '07 sling and bayonet it will certainly make a nice GW display piece. However its actual history post dates the War. I myself collect only GW items so I'm obsessive over stamp dates, aging, that type of thing . However this will not detract from a WWI memorabilia display. What's the price? You could buy it and trade it with a forum member for a wartime produced example too as this rifle as Chris pointed out is an excellent commercial piece and sought by collectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 The rifle probbaly dates from the late 1920s. it appears to be a hybrid, as it has the windage rear sight of the Mark III but lacks a cut-off and has the later slab sided cocking piece of the Mark III*. It probably does not have volley sights either. It is not a Great War rifle, but it is an interesting piece and has its place in any collection. It is entirely up to you how much emphasis you place on it being of 1914-18 vintage. Chris I have always thought "S.R.G." was "Southern Rhodesian Government". Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Our posts crossed Alex! The lack of volley sights etc., applied just as much to the Mark III as the Mark III* after LoC 17622 of 2 January 1916. The only feature which makes a SMLE a Mark III* is the lack of magazine cut-off. All the other economy measures were common to both Mark III and III*. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Hi Alex Ok so its not war era but later how later are we talking is it/does it have all the right bits to be of the war era or is it completly wrong, iif it s a good collection piece is it worth buying to tied me over till i learn more and find a good example many thanks for your help Malc The rifle is, with the exception of the markings, identical to a mid-late war MkIII*. It does not have a cut-off, nor the early volley sights. It does however have a windage adjustable rear sight. If, as seems likely, it was made in the 1920s/30s then the fit and finish of the rifle will likely be very good - it will likely have seen relatively little use (compared to a service rifle in general circulation) so it will be (as it looks to be) in excellent condition. From 3ft this will be indistinguishable to all but the most anorak surrounded eyes ( ) from a later Great War rifle - or for that matter rifles carried throughout most of WWII. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Hi All So at around the £300 mark is it a an ok buy and trade it on/and up later on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Thanks for the clarification Tony. Another little bit added to the SMLE catalog in my noggin Its definitely Southern Rhodesian Govt. As the Scotts R. G. only existed during the Boer War. Malc, As stated above, these two chappies being the foremost authorities on the identification of these weapons, in large part due to their extreme old age, but mostly because they have small armories in their sheds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Hi All So at around the £300 mark is it a an ok buy and trade it on/and up later on? Well for reference, my 1917 Enfield made SMLE Mk.III* cost me $350 including a 1918 pattern 07 bayonet. If you can stay your itchy trigger finger (pun shamelessly intended) you can get GW rifle for less I would think. Are you in the UK and is this a deact piece? Its a reasonable price that could fetch a War era rifle in trade and would satisfy a GW display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Lol i had noticed there Knoledge on the subject over the past few months whilst looking on here whilst toying with the idea of getting one but even with reading the article and looking at all the pics im still unsure of what a good example should be. But since holding a live version 1916 version in Belgium this weekend i know one thing i want one (my wife is shaking her head as she knows with me one is never enough( i have a collection of old Vw's)) So should i bite the bullet and get this oneMalc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 oops seem to have posted at the same time. its a deact with cert and im in the nanny state of England. When in Ypres this weekend i was offerd and held a 1916 live in loverly condition with bayonet for 350 euros so much much cheaper but ok could get licence but then i think i would not be able to display it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Lol i had noticed there Knoledge on the subject over the past few months whilst looking on here whilst toying with the idea of getting one but even with reading the article and looking at all the pics im still unsure of what a good example should be. But since holding a live version 1916 version in Belgium this weekend i know one thing i want one (my wife is shaking her head as she knows with me one is never enough( i have a collection of old Vw's)) So should i bite the bullet and get this oneMalc I'd wait but that's just me. the pics above are of my first and only example so far with postwar civie varnish. And as you aptly described, one will not be enough. Chris and Tony will vouch for that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 wow thats nice been looking around nothing under £500 from what i can see around here. most nice ones iv seen around £900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Malc, £300 is possibly a bit steep as this export example would possibly be of more interest mainly to serious collectors like Chris, the rest of us, I would imagine would be looking for military issue WW1 dated rifles? The butt plate looks odd as it seems too small for the butt? Paul Edit: £500-£900 for a deac! Where have you been looking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixsermalc Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Hi Pual i had noticed that that is why i included that pic. Ok so i have only been looking on the dreaded web which is mainly just dealers. i have no prior knoledge of millitaria and ones of my next questions are where are the best fairs or best places to look im also on the look out foor uniform and oother pieces of kit as its getting quite addictive. Malc, £300 is possibly a bit steep as this export example would possibly be of more interest mainly to serious collectors like Chris, the rest of us, I would imagine would be looking for military issue WW1 dated rifles? The butt plate looks odd as it seems too small for the butt? Paul Edit: £500-£900 for a deac! Where have you been looking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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