Removing pin from a grenade with your teeth

[Mark Hone]

On my school battlefields tour in October we will be visiting La Boisselle and I intend to tell the story of the VC action by the amazing one-handed, one-eyed and mad-as-a-box-of-frogs Lt Col Adrian Carton De Wiart. According to Gerald Gliddon's book on Somme VCs Carton de Wiart, who ended up as a de facto brigade commander in the fighting for the village, took his usual active approach to leadership including removing pins from grenades with his teeth (as he only had one hand). Aeons ago I was solemnly told by an army instructor that this was a Hollywood invention : 'If you try it, you'll need a new set of teeth' I recall him saying in deadpan NCO tones. I've passed on this bit of wisdom to generations of my pupils when demonstrating the workings of a Mills bomb. Can it be done? Has anyone been daft enough to try it?

[Lachlan]

I know what you mean - you'd tend to think the splayed split-pin would be stronger than the gnashers ! I understood some soldiers (perhaps WW2) used to loosen their pins for ease of use. Hopefully not as much as the fictional US sergeant on Guadalcanal in "Thin Red Line" who loosened his with a knife and it later came apart from his waistbelt ! Messy !

Actually, I work with a do-or-die character like De Wiart. This chap was an officer in the Rhodesian Army and he is so go-ahead and gung-ho !! One of his classic acts (he has done many !) was when he took toothache over a weekend while the dentist was off. No problem - he went into the bathroom with a pair of pliers and tugged it out in front of the mirror, no anaesthetic. Unfortunately, he still had the toothache and realised he'd pulled the wrong one. So he worked out which one it probably was and had another go ! Success !!

[RobL]

One of the main things is, why would you want to remove the pin with your mouth, instead of using your fingers? On top of that, practise was that you'd keep onto the pin until you'd thrown the grenade, in case you changed your mind about throwing it and needed to make it safe again (say, friendly soldiers got to the area you were about to lob your bomb)

Regarding loosening the pins of grenades to make them come out more easily, I was under the impression that when William McFadzean (later VC) threw himself on grenades after a box of grenades spilled out with two of them losing their pins, the reason the pins came out so easily was that they had been loosened prior to being moved up to the front line ready for the attack

[centurion]

You have to use the specially developed 'Hollywood' Mills Bomb which always throws enemy soldiers out of foxholes and into the air, produces remarkably little gore and never sends any fragments anywhere near the thrower. These have the Kindydent (trade mark applied for) pins ("its the sort of pin Tony Curtiss would have used"), certified as enamel friendly by the American Society of Cosmetic Dentistry.

[squirrel]

I suppose Carton de Wiart could have placed the grenade under his arm with the missing hand, pulled the pin with the remaining hand and then taken the grenade from under the arm and thrown it; or perhaps his batman pulled the pins and passed them to him for throwing. Nothing like a bit of live grenade juggling in the front line under fire.

Wasn't there a device worn on the belt for pulling grenade pins though and used by trained Bombers? Would have been ideal for him.

[Staffsyeoman]

Yes.. Hollywood Mills bombs, which go for about a mile and produce an explosion akin to an 18-pdr shell.

I had a hard enough time pulling a pin with fingers in training - wouldn't put my teeth anywhere near!

[Mark Hone]

Thanks for the replies. As you may know, Lachlan, Carton De Wiart allegedly pulled two fingers off his injured left hand himself after a surgeon , for some reason, refused to do it. Mind you, that's nothing compared to Mansfield Cumming (the original MI6 'C') who supposedly cut himself free from a wrecked car by amputating his own leg with a pen knife. I like the image of Carton De Wiart and his batman juggling live grenades-a bit like John Wayne and Walter 'Stumpy' Brennan with sticks of dynamite in 'Rio Bravo'! I've not heard of these 'automatic pin extractor' devices before. What did they look like?

[Guest]

Split pins vrs teeth...Lachlan has it right. I have handled grenades both as an enlisted Marine and in 'Nam. If the opposing lengths of pin are squeezed together, then John Wayne is alive and well. However, those damned things have a tendency to lose said pin at the most embarrassing and inconvenient times. I prefer to pull the pin with my fingers. Much more control, less opportunity to blow ones self apart.

Grenades, when detonated go "BAM," no fire, smoke or flinging the victim over the sandbags. The target is left filled with hundreds of tiny holes, most of which will prove to be fatal. Not Hollywoodish, but definately lethal.

Doc B

[RobL]

The pin extractor wasn't, as far as i'm aware, attached to the belt at all - it was held between the fingers and used to ease extraction instead of your fingers. It was basically a T shape with a hook at the end of the base of the T to pull the pin out with

Better yet there's a photo here of a replica 'WW1 and WW2 Grenade Ring Puller'

http://www.dugup.co.uk/ware13/wh13_page_3.htm

[Gunner Bailey]

The answer to the question is - it depends on how far the pin end is splayed. A wide Y type splay may be un pullable in some cases. In my experience with Mills Grenade restoration a narrow splay of a few degrees is easy to pull out with a finger but I've not tried my teeth on one. For the WW1 bomber, especially in the early days with the small size (20mm) ring I would have thought the 'bomber's hook' was pretty essential. Using the teeth to pull pins is not in any Grenade training manual I've seen and could, I expect may even have been invented in Hollywood.

John

[Dan Brock]

I know what you mean - you'd tend to think the splayed split-pin would be stronger than the gnashers ! I understood some soldiers (perhaps WW2) used to loosen their pins for ease of use. Hopefully not as much as the fictional US sergeant on Guadalcanal in "Thin Red Line" who loosened his with a knife and it later came apart from his waistbelt ! Messy !

According to James Jones' factual account of his experiences at Guadalcanal, the Sgt./grenade incident really happened.

He'd had it in his pocket and mistakenly tried to pull it out by the ring - and his words were the same as those in the story:

"What a stupid recruit trick to pull"

[Kevin O'Marah]

Would it not depend on how good a fit your false teeth was?

Incidentaly having worked as a fitter in the nuclear industry, on critical plant items and to satisfy the inspectorate we had to splay the split pins to 120 degrees.

Kevin

[Michael Johnson]

You have to use the specially developed 'Hollywood' Mills Bomb which always throws enemy soldiers out of foxholes and into the air, produces remarkably little gore and never sends any fragments anywhere near the thrower. These have the Kindydent (trade mark applied for) pins ("its the sort of pin Tony Curtiss would have used"), certified as enamel friendly by the American Society of Cosmetic Dentistry.

You'd appreciate the quote from "Bing" Coughlin, creator of the Canadian Army's Second War version of "Sad Sack" - "Herbie":

"One 36 grenade, hopped up with Calvados, would do what Hollywood kept insisting a grenade could do."

[Guest]

From the Imperial War Museum Collections An account written by Cyril José of his experiences during the attack of the 2nd Devons on 1 July 1916 opposite Ovillers:

" At night German patrols came out, probably looking for wounded men who could be taken prisoner. I lay doggo clutching a Mill's bomb ready to pull out the pin with my teeth. Rather than be taken prisoner I would take the patrol with me. "

Mike

[Lachlan]

From the Imperial War Museum Collections An account written by Cyril José of his experiences during the attack of the 2nd Devons on 1 July 1916 opposite Ovillers:

" At night German patrols came out, probably looking for wounded men who could be taken prisoner. I lay doggo clutching a Mill's bomb ready to pull out the pin with my teeth. Rather than be taken prisoner I would take the patrol with me. "

Mike

I presume he was keeping perfectly still, playing dead and his hand in the dead position was close to his face, clutching the grenade. To use his other hand would maybe take too long and attract attention, so the teeth was an emergency measure.

[Guest]

I suppose if he was prepared to take the German patrol with him, he wouldn't be worrying about his teeth?

Mike

[auchonvillerssomme]

I suppose it would have been useful to have a couple of extra grenades dangling from the mouth just in case you came across one of those women snipers.

[dfaulder]

From the Imperial War Museum Collections An account written by Cyril José of his experiences during the attack of the 2nd Devons on 1 July 1916 opposite Ovillers:

" At night German patrols came out, probably looking for wounded men who could be taken prisoner. I lay doggo clutching a Mill's bomb ready to pull out the pin with my teeth. Rather than be taken prisoner I would take the patrol with me. "

Mike

There is a difference between being prepared to try and pull the pin with your teeth (possibly based on heresay) and actually doing so; the fact he wrote this probably means that in the end he did not? Presumably because the ultimate need did not arise rather than inability to actually do so?

However, (as one without military experience) I would have expected there to be some way that grenades could "be prepared" so that you could "prime and throw" single handed. There must have been numerous situations where either you had to be holding on to something (tree, cliff, moving vehicle etc.), or the other hand could not be used for some other reason.

David

[Guest]

" There is a difference between being prepared to try and pull the pin with your teeth (possibly based on heresay) and actually doing so "

Of course that's true. It obviously doesn't prove anyone ever did it, but the thought was there, in this chaps mind, if not at the actual time, then certainly later. I dare say certain individuals could do it. Some can rip coke tins apart with teeth, and I have seen a photograph of a chinese man pulling a train with his ears

Mike

[Jack Sheldon]

Preparing grenades for throwing was quite a palaver. If we take as an example the 36 grenade, which was a direct development of the Mills bomb, the first thing to do was to remove the thick layer of protective wax from the top of the lever and striker assembly. It was then necessary to loosen the split pin by pressing together the splayed ends (probably with pliers). The next step was to carry out a striker test, by removing the base plug and releasing the lever under control (so it was not lost)and making sure than the spring and firing pin were free to slide down the central tube correctly. If all was well, the grenade then had to be primed by inserting the percussion cap/safety fuze/detonator assembly in the base and tightening the base plug again. The grenade was then ready for use but, as far as the 'looseness' of the pin was concerned, even after this attention, it still needed a solid pull to extract it. I suppose some men might have used their teeth. A Nigerian cadet in my company at Sandhurst could bite into beer cans with his teeth and also take the lids off Guinness bottles ditto - but I would not have liked to have tried it.

Jack

[Andy Wade]

" There is a difference between being prepared to try and pull the pin with your teeth (possibly based on heresay) and actually doing so "

Of course that's true. It obviously doesn't prove anyone ever did it, but the thought was there, in this chaps mind, if not at the actual time, then certainly later. I dare say certain individuals could do it. Some can rip coke tins apart with teeth, and I have seen a photograph of a chinese man pulling a train with his ears

Mike

Yes, he was called Douglas. Now he's known as Lugless Douglas.

I remember collecting a series of war cards when I was very young that featured soldiers pulling pins out with their teeth before lobbing the grenade. It seemd to be the 'heroic' way to do it but now it just seems a bit ridiculous.

[auchonvillerssomme]

Can someone with a decent camera and an (inert) mills show us how it is done, possibly linked to youtube? I did try but the configuration of my teeth doesn't allow me to get a grip, I would also be interested in how the ring is manoeuvred into the right position, do you use your tongue or use pursed lips?

[Guest]

Does this count?

Mike

[squirrel]

Just shows that an idiot and a half wit together can prove anything IMHO.

[Guest]

Just shows that an idiot and a half wit together can prove anything IMHO.

Mike