Unrecognised weapon

[Old Tom]

The Hofmann translation of Ernst Junger's 'Storm of Steel' includes a description of a weapon in use by the BEF on the Somme in July 16 which defeats me. The translation, page 75 Penguin edition, reads

We referred to these missiles as 'wash basket mortars' because it sometimes looked as though they had been shaken down from the sky by the basketload. The best way of picturing their design is imagining a rolling pin with two short handles on it. Apparently they are fired from special revolver-like drums and are sent spinning end over end through the air, making a somewhat laboured wheezing sound. These come so thick and fast that their landing was like the torching of a batch of rockets.

The description of the missile could fit a mortar bomb but what on earth was the projector?

Old Tom

[RobL]

As he says 'apparently', my best guess is that he is referring to the Stokes 3 inch mortar, and as no-one's actually seen the mortar itself, the quick firing ability has led the Germans to think up what it should look like judging by its firing characteristics

[TonyE]

I agree with Rob. the 3 inch Stokes had the fuze at one end and the propulsive "cartridge" extension on the other so could easily be described as a "rolling pin".(I can't find my picture of the bomb at present)

Also a battery of Stokes with good crew could put a large number of rounds in the air at one time.

Regards

TonyE

[Andrew Upton]

...so could easily be described as a "rolling pin".(I can't find my picture of the bomb at present)

A few examples shown in the Wiki link picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes_mortar

[centurion]

At this period experiments were being made by the French with bomb throwers based on reactive centrifugal effects. In essence a short wide drum was spun up to quite a speed and kept at that speed whilst missiles were fed down a hopper to be flung out as rapidly as they could be fed in. Its an idea that's been tried every so often from the 1840s onwards and has always failed mainly because of the stresses involved. This time was no exception and the things never even got near a front line. However German intelligence may have got wind of the trials and issued a "look out for" notice to the troops (they did a similar note about tracked armoured vehicle before Flers) With the appearance of the Stoke bombs Junger and/or others may have put two and two together and made Pi. This would explain the reference to a revolving drum.

[SiegeGunner]

Jünger's unit was facing the British at the time. I've checked the original German text of this passage in the edition translated by Hofmann and the description perfectly fits the Stokes rounds shown in the Image Gallery of the Wiki article. Old Tom has missed out a line of the Hofmann quote that reads "From a distance they resembled flying sausages" — the German words being 'lange Mettwürste', ie. objects the size of a delicatessen slicing-salami, which again fits the Stokes round very well.

The curious description of the "landing" of the projectiles as "like the torching of a batch of rockets" actually means that from EJ's perspective on the receiving end, they impacted in near-instantaneous succession, like the rapid sequential firing of a battery of rockets.

The German text of the corresponding passage in the edition of SoS translated in 1929 by the admirable Basil Creighton does not contain the references to rolling pins, Mettwürste or rockets, so the amplified description was evidently added by Jünger a number of years after the end of the war — but whether he had the opportunity to examine a Stokes round in the intervening time, I don't know. The corresponding passage in the recently-published transcript of Jünger's original handwritten war diary matches the text of the early published edition of SoS and uses the same imagery of the mortar rounds raining down on the German trenches as though they had been tipped out of a basket held directly over their heads.

[centurion]

Jünger's unit was facing the British at the time.

Which fits my theory exactly. The German inteligence "look out for" reports went to troops on every part of the WF. (The 'tank' warning I've mentioned refers to made in French factories and was probably a leak from the Schneider development). So if the Germans are expecting bombs from a drum shaped revolving thrower to rain down on them (as per an intelligence report) and Stokes rounds start coming down in salvoes they may well erroneously identify the latter as having been caused by the former.

[Terry_Reeves]

It sounds like the Liven's Projector bomb. They were fired in batteries of 25, often hundreds at a time, and tumbled through the air. They were first used in the the later stages of the Somme battle in 1916, but came fully into their own the following year.

http://tinyurl.com/445ylvw

TR

[centurion]

It sounds like the Liven's Projector bomb. They were fired in batteries of 25, often hundreds at a time, and tumbled through the air. They were first used in the later stages of the Somme battle in 1916, but came fully into their own the following year.

http://tinyurl.com/445ylvw

TR

True but the shape is wrong. Still suspect Stokes rounds wrongly attributed to a different launcher.

[Robert Dunlop]

...Apparently they are fired from special revolver-like drums...

Mick, do you have access to the original wording for this section of the quote?

Robert

[SiegeGunner]

"Wir nannten diese walzenförmigen Geschosse die 'Waschkorbminen', da es manchmal den Eindruck machte, als würden sie mit Korben vom Himmel geschüttet. Ihre Form gegenwärtigt man sich am besten, wenn man an eine Nudelrolle mit zwei kurzen Handgriffen denkt. Sie wurden anscheinend aus besonderen, revolverartigen Gestellen abgefeuert und überschlugen sich unter schwerfälligem Rauschen in der Luft, aus einiger Entfernung wie lange Mettwürste anzusehen. Sie folgten so dicht aufeinander, daß ihre Einschläge an das Abbrennen eines Raketensatzes erinnerten."

"We called these roller-shaped projectiles 'washing basket bombs' because it sometimes seemed as if they were being tipped out of the sky in basket-loads. Their construction is best imagined as a rolling pin with two short handles. They were apparently fired from special revolving mounts and tumbled noisily and ponderously through the air, from a distance resembling large salami sausages. They came so thick and fast that their arrival was reminiscent of the firing of a salvo of rockets." (My translation)

As I indicated earlier, this more elaborate description was written by Jünger some years after the end of the war (his contemporaneous handwritten diary and early editions of SoS refer only to the image of mortar bombs being dumped on the German trenches 'in basket-loads' from overhead).

[centurion]

"Wir nannten diese walzenförmigen Geschosse die 'Waschkorbminen', da es manchmal den Eindruck machte, als würden sie mit Korben vom Himmel geschüttet. Ihre Form gegenwärtigt man sich am besten, wenn man an eine Nudelrolle mit zwei kurzen Handgriffen denkt. Sie wurden anscheinend aus besonderen, revolverartigen Gestellen abgefeuert und überschlugen sich unter schwerfälligem Rauschen in der Luft, aus einiger Entfernung wie lange Mettwürste anzusehen. Sie folgten so dicht aufeinander, daß ihre Einschläge an das Abbrennen eines Raketensatzes erinnerten."

"We called these roller-shaped projectiles 'washing basket bombs' because it sometimes seemed as if they were being tipped out of the sky in basket-loads. Their shape is best imagined as a rolling pin with two short handles. They were apparently fired from special revolving mounts and tumbled noisily and ponderously through the air, from a distance resembling large salami sausages. They came so thick and fast that their arrival was reminiscent of the firing of a salvo of rockets." (My translation)

As I indicated earlier, this more elaborate description was written by Jünger some years after the end of the war (his contemporaneous handwritten diary and early editions of SoS refer only to the image of mortar bombs being dumped on the German trenches 'in basket-loads' from overhead).

Sounds as if he's mixing up memories of more than one mortar (Stokes and Liven). Neither had a revolving mount so he might also have jumbled in some reference to the French device I mentioned. One of the dangers of memoires from memory.

[Old Tom]

Many thanks for your views. I believe that Junger was describing events in early July 16 and hence the Stokes mortar fits the bill.

Old Tom

[Robert Dunlop]

Thank you for posting the original text, Mick. And for providing an explanation of the difference between the two entries. It gives an interesting glimpse into the difference between Juenger's original diary and his later work.

'revolverartigen' intrigued me. In technical documents, it is often translated as 'revolving' but there are examples of 'revolver-like' too.

Robert

[Gunner Bailey]

Many thanks for your views. I believe that Junger was describing events in early July 16 and hence the Stokes mortar fits the bill.

Old Tom

Yes it must be a Stokes. I read one description of a Stokes mortar team having 16 bombs in the air as the first one landed. So a few teams operating together would give the effect described. No wonder the Germans learnt the lesson and in WW2 used mortars with deadly effect.

John