Tinhat47 Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 A co-worker of mine found this in his parents' attic. It was brought back from Europe by his uncle decades ago, along with a Great War British Brodie helmet, M1916 German helmet and an M.1886 Lebel bayonet. His dad is under the impression that it's a World War II Luger, but that's obviously not the case. The closest I can find that looks like it is the Belgian Browning Fabrique Nationale, the M1900s and M1910s. The little inset in the handle is curious. It's not like any of the Browning FNs and looks almost Chinese or possibly Cyrillic. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radlad Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 Looks like a copy of a Browning 1910, Probably in 7.65 calibre (.32ACP) . I don't recognise the grip emblem straight away but they don't look like the original grips from the period. What markings does it carry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 Looks like a copy of a Browning 1910, Probably in 7.65 calibre (.32ACP) . I don't recognise the grip emblem straight away but they don't look like the original grips from the period. What markings does it carry? I'd say the same - a simplified copy, with no grip safety. There were quite a lot of such copies as the Browning original was one of the first of the neat, compact pocket autos and a firm favourite with soldiers who could get hold of one. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 2 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 2 April , 2011 Very interesting! Radlad, the photo is all I have to go on right now, but my co-worker says he's bringing all items with him back to town so that I can take a look at them in person. But wait, he says "Deutschewerke Werkerfurt" is stamped on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 That will be 'Deutsche Werke Werk Erfurt'. This thread on a gun board seems to be about the same item — http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=23271 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 That will be 'Deutsche Werke Werk Erfurt'. This thread on a gun board seems to be about the same item — http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=23271 This one seems to be missing its grip safety, then, which is present on the one in the link. There are also significant differences from the Browning 1910. I had one of these in the 80s, and it was dismantled by rotating the barrel to take some ribs out of lock with recesses in the receiver so that you could remove barrel and slide together forwards. This OTOH appears to be an Ortgies design dating from 1919 onwards. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 2 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 2 April , 2011 Hmmm ... looks like they were made from 1919-1924. Thanks, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 The little inset in the handle is curious. It's not like any of the Browning FNs and looks almost Chinese or possibly Cyrillic. Any ideas? It's a "D". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 It's a "D". Wikipedia says it's a crouching cat with tail curled towards its back, adopted towards the end of the Ortgies pistol production run. It may have been intended also to be read as a 'D', but it's quite an imaginative one... Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 It is possible that an American soldier involved in the postwar occupation of the Rhineland may have obtained a German pistol of postwar manufacture. Even though Germany had pronounced economic problems after the war I don't think the manufacturing of the commercial arms industry there came to a screeching halt on November 11, 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radlad Posted 4 April , 2011 Share Posted 4 April , 2011 It is possible that an American soldier involved in the postwar occupation of the Rhineland may have obtained a German pistol of postwar manufacture. Even though Germany had pronounced economic problems after the war I don't think the manufacturing of the commercial arms industry there came to a screeching halt on November 11, 1918. Without knowing when it was imported into the USA , anything is possible. It could be a WW2 souvenir or even imported by one of the big surplus dealers prior to the 1968 FGCA. Pointless guessing really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 4 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2011 It was brought back to the U.S. by his great uncle William McCallum Currie, who served in the Great War. Since the late-manufacture markings place the pistol being made probably in 1923 and his uncle was back in the U.S. to marry his wife in 1925, it was brought here between those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 4 April , 2011 Share Posted 4 April , 2011 Wikipedia says it's a crouching cat with tail curled towards its back, adopted towards the end of the Ortgies pistol production run. It may have been intended also to be read as a 'D', but it's quite an imaginative one... Regards, MikB Exactly the point. Cheers, A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 4 April , 2011 Share Posted 4 April , 2011 It was brought back to the U.S. by his great uncle William McCallum Currie, who served in the Great War. Since the late-manufacture markings place the pistol being made probably in 1923 and his uncle was back in the U.S. to marry his wife in 1925, it was brought here between those years. The vast majority of American occupation troops had been withdrawn by the end of 1919 leaving only two brigades of specialist forces (eg cavalry remount procurement). These were withdrawn over the next couple of years. The very last US troops to leave departed on 24th Jan 1923 when control of the Coblenz bridgehead was passed to the French Army, and the last American soldiers left the occupation zone. Given the manufacture date of the pistol and these dates it would seem improbable that it was brought back by a returning US soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 4 April , 2011 Share Posted 4 April , 2011 Some things you can never know for sure. Some old military firearms have a verbal provenance of a certain sort, but the old tales are usually unverifiable. Buyers who are serious about how they spend their money focus on the make, model, and its overall condition, not stories about how it once belonged to Robert E. Lee. It's nice to remember the old stories to pass on to others but you should regard those legends as being what they are, imperfect memories, told and retold, sometimes embellished with each retelling, distorted and dimmed by time. In U.S. gun collecting circles there's the saying, "Buy the gun, not the story." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now