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Remembered Today:

Morgan Jones South Wales Borderers


djunna

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Hello all.

Im trying to find some informarion on my Gt Grandfather. His Name was Morgan Jones and he was born in Pontypool Monmouthshire in 1889. He Served with the Machine Gun Corps ( No 62226 ) and then with the South Wales Borderers ( No 13259 ). I have his MIC and it says he won the 1915 Star with the MGC and the Victory and British Medals with the SWB. Im not sure what Btn he served with. His MIC also states Theatre of war as - (3) Egypt. There is a story in the family that he was reported KIA on 3 occasions, thankfully he Made it through the war ok. Im told he once turned up in a hospital in Egypt, this has made me wonder if he may have fought at Gallipoli?. Also on talking to a relative who knew him ( Morgans Grandson) he said that Morgan used to teach him to count in Indian and told him that he had served there in the Army?

I also have his discharge papers and it says he was discharged from the 5th (HD) Btn SWB. butt the date is 11th March 1941. I think he served in the Home Guard or Volunteers on an AA gun in ROF Glascoed.

Im told he Boxed for the Army during the war and another story is that he fought Victor Mcglaglen in an Exhibition bout somewhere. Iv looked on Ancestry for his Service papers but cant find them, maybe im looking in the wrong place? Id love to know a bit more about what Battles he fought at, Where he went, and Why did he leave the MGC?

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thank you Darren

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Darren,

Without a service record it will be difficult to be certain which battles Morgan Jones fought. His MIC (at WO 372/11 in the National Archives), gives his service as

SWB 13259 Private

MGC 62226 Private

So he served with the SWB first, and later with the MGC. That makes sense, because almost all MGC units did not see combat until 1916, so if he has a 1915 Star

it is probably for service with SWB. It is very possible that he served in the 13th (Western) Division, because its 40th Brigade included the 4th Battalion of the SWB that fought at Gallipoli & served after January, 1916, in Egypt and Mesopotamia. The 13th Division's 40th Brigade also included the 40th Machine Gun Company--so Morgan Jones may have been in the 13th Division, 40th Brigade, first with the 4th Battalion SWB and later with 40th MG Company. I hope this helps you get started with your search.

Trelawney

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A pretty strong reinforcement to what Trelawny has deduced:-

Name: HAYES, IVOR WESLEY HARCOURT. Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: South Wales Borderers. Unit Text: 4th Bn.

Date of Death: 07/08/1915. Service No: 13258

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 80 to 84 or 219 and 220. Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

The immediately preceding Reg't No..... so very likely they trained and were posted together, this chap unfortunately not making it back.

Could be where and when your G G father may have been wounded... or then again, not!!

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Darren,

Without a service record it will be difficult to be certain which battles Morgan Jones fought. His MIC (at WO 372/11 in the National Archives), gives his service as

SWB 13259 Private

MGC 62226 Private

So he served with the SWB first, and later with the MGC. That makes sense, because almost all MGC units did not see combat until 1916, so if he has a 1915 Star

it is probably for service with SWB. It is very possible that he served in the 13th (Western) Division, because its 40th Brigade included the 4th Battalion of the SWB that fought at Gallipoli & served after January, 1916, in Egypt and Mesopotamia. The 13th Division's 40th Brigade also included the 40th Machine Gun Company--so Morgan Jones may have been in the 13th Division, 40th Brigade, first with the 4th Battalion SWB and later with 40th MG Company. I hope this helps you get started with your search.

Trelawney

Hello Trelawney.

Thanks a lot for that, yes its something for me to get my teeth into, very interesting that he may have left the SWB for the MGC. i thought it was the other way around as he has on his MIC - 15. STAR / M.G.C./ 9.C.5 / C/980 . And on the British and Victory medals there is an Asterix matching with an asterix alongside his SWB rank and Number.

Darren

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A pretty strong reinforcement to what Trelawny has deduced:-

Name: HAYES, IVOR WESLEY HARCOURT. Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: South Wales Borderers. Unit Text: 4th Bn.

Date of Death: 07/08/1915. Service No: 13258

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 80 to 84 or 219 and 220. Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

The immediately preceding Reg't No..... so very likely they trained and were posted together, this chap unfortunately not making it back.

Could be where and when your G G father may have been wounded... or then again, not!!

Hello KevinW4.

Thats a sobering thought to see the man next in the line not making it home. I see Ivor Joined in Pontypool as well. Morgans mother was a Hayes, could be a relative as well? . So he was killed at Gallipoli then. adds to my thoughts about Morgan going there. Thanks for taking the time to help all.

Darren

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Hello all

Iv been looking at my tree and it seems Ivor was a relation, he was related to Morgans Mother in law. Catherine Falvey nee Hayes, Still cant understand the details about Morgan switching Regiments, An Uncle has his Medals and SWB Capbadge Framed at his home, Nothing on the Regiment he would have spent a longer period of time with?

Cheers all

Darren

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Just a guess about Ivor, glad there was a connection that you would otherwise not have known about!!

Perhaps Morgan "identified" more with the SWB rather than the Machine Gun Corps, so stressed the "Welsh" part of his service? And maybe honouring Ivor, too?

He was probably transferred to the Machine Gun Corps because he had experience and training on that weapon with the SWB, and trained men were at a premium.

Machine gun crews were vitally important to break up attacks and defend the trenches when under attack. They were therefore a high priority target, shells, bombs, grenades, snipers etc and were expected to keep pace with any attack to help suppress enemy fire. He may well have seen the carnage on both sides that machine guns did to troops.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello

Thanks everyone for all your help, really appreciate it, sorry i havent been on to thank you, my laptop playing up. I also have a Discharge paper from 1941. il try to attach it.

I spoke to someone and they said that is why his service record hasnt been released, as he served some part in WW2. would this be right?

Thanks again

Darren

post-60195-0-78217200-1302896721.jpg

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