4thGordons Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Continuing the occasional series: "WWI weapons I acquire but do not collect" A bit of an oddity but a companion to my long rifle - a Hungarian made Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 Carbine. Manufactured in Hungary(Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar, Budapest) in 1917 I believe this is in 8x56 but actually I have not yet confirmed this, originally it would have been made in 8x50r. This is not a recent (soviet era) refinish which are relatively plentiful but nor is it in fully original condition if I am correct and it has been converted to 8x56. Its bore is also rough (but shootable) - apparently someone shot corrosive ammunition and failed to clean it, but the price was right and as a place holder alongside its full length compatriot it edges the collection forward. For those not familiar this is a straight pull design which is rather disconcerting if you are used to turning the bolt and locking it home. On these, as with the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin and Canadian Ross rifles, one simply pulls straight back on the bolt to eject the spent case and pushes it straight back in to chamber the round and cock the rifle...even thought there are all sorts of blocks of metal that thus engage I must say I always feel a little nervous about this! Still millions were made and served in the Austro-Hungarian and other armies in WWI, II and beyond. The bolt is rather complex and assembly and disassembly caused me a number of "errrrmmmm" moments when nothing seemed to line up! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Nice carbine Chris! Did it come from the same shed as the SMLEs or a different one? I picked up some interesting 8x50R ammo recently. It was a 10 round paper packet of Bulgarian drill rounds with blue wood bullets, probably made in the 1930s. Nothing unusual normally, but several of them had been made from WWI German ammunition manufactured by Polte in 1917. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Can't say that I've heard of a "Steyr-Mannlicher" ever being used in WW1 Chris.? I believe the firms that manufactured them were either known as OEWG or FGGY. Just a minor point but you know how these terms can be inappropriately used.! I'm actually quite surprised TonyE missed this one, he must be back on his medication ..... EDIT. Abbreviations for the manufacturers found below (Also find an excellent link HERE for the full story on these rifles and variations, etc) (OEWG) = Osterreichische Waffenfabriks-Gesellschaft (FGGY) = Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 30 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2011 You are correct, in attempting to communicate the mixed heritage of this particular example I combined the place of manufacture of some parts (K stamp = OeWG in Steyr) and probable location of the post war rechambering, with the designer's name (Mannlicher) and the abbreviated model name (M95) in a manner that was not accurate. Thanks for the correction, and my apologies if I misled or confused anyone. Furthermore it also appears that perhaps the designation carbine is also misleading as I think it was formally referred to as a short rifle or "Kurtály Puska M.95" Good link - thanks for that, most of my information was in Hungarian. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patje70 Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Nice acquisition your collection is growing fast, if you need some space you can always call me , I will be happy to help you out. Regards Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Can't say that I've heard of a "Steyr-Mannlicher" ever being used in WW1 Chris.? I believe the firms that manufactured them were either known as OEWG or FGGY. Just a minor point but you know how these terms can be inappropriately used.! I'm actually quite surprised TonyE missed this one, he must be back on his medication ..... EDIT. Abbreviations for the manufacturers found below (Also find an excellent link HERE for the full story on these rifles and variations, etc) (OEWG) = Osterreichische Waffenfabriks-Gesellschaft (FGGY) = Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar Cheers, S>S Whilst I will concede that Chris was a little imprecise with his description of a "Steyr Mannlicher" since his was made in Budapest, had it been made in Steyr it would have been a perfectly good description, since it was made in/by Steyr and was a Mannlicher design. Whilst the full name of the manufacturer was the Oesterreichische Waffenfabrik Gessellschaft and it was part of the Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken empire, it still used the title of Waffenfabrik Steyr, as evidenced on this M1912 Chilean Mauser used by the Royal Navy in WWI. As for the medication, I stopped taking it as it was not working....I still find myself being irritated by things I really should ignore. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Whilst I will concede that Chris was a little imprecise with his description of a "Steyr Mannlicher" since his was made in Budapest, had it been made in Steyr it would have been a perfectly good description, since it was made in/by Steyr and was a Mannlicher design. Regards TonyE TonyE, I was commenting in regard to the designation that was used ie. "Hungarian made Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 Carbine" which in period context is a complete misnomer. The modern firm of Steyr-Mannlicher was incorporated well after WW1 had ended, and I don't think I have ever heard of Budapest Mannlicher being used as a model description. Bottom line, in GW terms they were known as Mannlicher rifles and as such should probably be referred to as the Mannlicher M1895, which is what it is, and as Chris has now noted. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 1 April , 2011 Share Posted 1 April , 2011 Congrats on the new acquisition. Rough barrels seem to be par for the course, a friend of mine has been looking for a couple years and has yet to find one that meets his standards. Shooting, I find a smaller fireball than the Berthier's, but a more stout recoil. Certainly a joy, though buying ammo is painful... As an aside, having recently picked up a (sadly) sportered Ross, I actually found the Ross (MkII) bolt more difficult than the Steyr. This may have been due to the fact it came mis-assembled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 1 April , 2011 Thanks - I have a much later soviet era refinished example with a mint bore which shoots very well actually (but yes the recoil is pretty stout!) but I still feel odd just pushing and pulling the bolt back and forth. I too have a sportered Ross MkII I have slowly accumulated some of the parts but I suspect unless my woodworking skills (or bank balance!) improve dramatically I will never be able to reconstitute the missing fore-end. I have not actually tried that rifle despite owning it for several years. If I get time this weekend I will try and post side by side long and short rifle pics. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 Happened upon a bayonet to go with my Kurtály Puska . Manufactured by Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar, Budapest like the rifle. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 11 April , 2011 Share Posted 11 April , 2011 Are you sure that is not a fake, Chris? Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 11 April , 2011 Share Posted 11 April , 2011 Chris Re tony's query, shouldn't the carbine bayonet have a foresight on the muzzle ring? (see the attached pic) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 Chris Re tony's query, shouldn't the carbine bayonet have a foresight on the muzzle ring? (see the attached pic) Mike Hi Mike I believe you are correct however I also think that this example once did and that it has been the victim of some serious filing! It doesn't show up too well on my pictures but you can see some of the rough tool marks. It looks like the muzzle ring has been reshaped (also looks like some markings - perhaps a unit - have been removed from the flat of the crosspiece). I was so happy to find a hungarian marked and imperial proofed example I didn't pay close enough attention at the dealers! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzmaximilian Posted 11 April , 2011 Share Posted 11 April , 2011 If my memory does not fail, there should be a big "S" engraved somewhere in order to recognize a re-chambered M95. S is for spitzer, as the new bullet was pointed and not rounded head as the original 8x50R. This is WW1 vintage cartridges as found on the field. Still wondering what caused the different preservation between the two, found only inches away from each other. The one in the middle is from a Gew 88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2011 If my memory does not fail, there should be a big "S" engraved somewhere in order to recognize a re-chambered M95. S is for spitzer, as the new bullet was pointed and not rounded head as the original 8x50R. You are correct! there is! it was under some baked on grease/paint/something - but I have cleaned it up now and there is indeed a large S (very large in fact!) prominent on the top of the receiver. I was pretty sure given the mix of steyr parts, that it had been converted but now it is clear.... so now I have a reason to look for one in 8x50R! and this very evenign someone emailed me about one!! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Old Prohaska Posted 10 May , 2013 Share Posted 10 May , 2013 I'm very late to the party here, so pardon my resurecting this thread. The weapon started life as a "Karabinerstutzen, M95" i.e. a short rifle (Stutzen) with side (Karabiner/carbine) swivels added; it has the narrower barrel band spacing of the Sutzen versus the Karabiner. The bottom swivels have been deleted, which was common practice during refurbishment in Bulgaria, so I'm afraid it is not in original configuration. Old Prohaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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