Hertfordshire Yeomanry

[Beselare]

I am helping an Australian friend to put together a complete folder of his English grandfather's war record. The soldier was Lieut. Antrobus Taft Harris, kia 19.3.16. Officially he was in the 4th Battn. Bedfordshire Regiment, attached to the 1st Battn. Lincolnshire Regiment. However, there is an undated wartime photo of him clearly wearing badges of the stag of the Hertfordshire Yeomanry. There is no mention of this attachment anywhere in his history. Is there any logical explanation of why he would have been wearing those Hertfordshire Yeomanry badges?

Many thanks for any help.

Bob Findley

Belgium

[Guest]

I am helping an Australian friend to put together a complete folder of his English grandfather's war record. The soldier was Lieut. Antrobus Taft Harris, kia 19.3.16. Officially he was in the 4th Battn. Bedfordshire Regiment, attached to the 1st Battn. Lincolnshire Regiment. However, there is an undated wartime photo of him clearly wearing badges of the stag of the Hertfordshire Yeomanry. There is no mention of this attachment anywhere in his history. Is there any logical explanation of why he would have been wearing those Hertfordshire Yeomanry badges?

Many thanks for any help.

Bob Findley

Belgium

Without seeing a picture of the badge my best guess is that your man was in the Hertfordshire Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regt pre 1910, not the Hertfordshire Yeomanry.

In 1887 the 1st (Hertfordshire) Volunteer Battalion and the 2nd (Hertfordshire) Volunteer Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regt were formed from the various Rifle Volunteer Corps. in 1908 when the Territorial Force was established they combined to form the Hertfordshire Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment (TF) and 2 years later they split off to form the 1st Bn the Hertfordhsire Regiment. The cap badge was a circlet inscribed "The Hertfordshire Regiment" surmounted by an imperial crown. In the centre a hart lodged (i.e. stag sitting down) - Reference Kipling & King Vol 1 page 434 Badge No. 1805. The Hertfordshire Yeomanry badge was " A Hart trippant (i.e walking with one leg raised) on a ford (the County Crest of Hertfordshire) K&K 1448.

The collar badges of these two different regiments were (I believe) both Harts (a male deer of at least 5 years i.e with developed antlers) and could be the confusing factor.

If he was in the Herts Yeomanry there is no record of him pre August 1914 according to the War Diaries which provide nominal rolls of the officers who served overseas. It is possible that he was a soldier in the Herts Yeo and was commissioned into the Bedfordshire Regt but Ancestry.co.uk and TNA database show no returns for this search. Regards MG

Postscript: De Ruvigny's Roll of Honor records him as serving with the London Scottish from 3/9/14 and being commissioned on 6/3/15 into the 4th (Extra Reserve) Bn Bedfordshire Regt. I think it therefore unlikely he served in the Herts Yeo in WWI. Possibly pre 3/9/14 but that would question why he joined the London Scottish. MG

[Beselare]

Dear Martin

Many thanks for your very comprehensive reply. The badges on the photo are definitely the one you described as "A Hart Trippant, ie walking with one leg raised". Does this make any difference to the information you provided?

Kind Regards

Bob

[Guest]

Dear Martin. Many thanks for your very comprehensive reply. The badges on the photo are definitely the one you described as "A Hart Trippant, ie walking with one leg raised". Does this make any difference to the information you provided? Kind Regards Bob

Bob. I assume you are referring to a cap badge. Can you post a photo or describe it. If it is a hart trippnat and within a star badge it is either the Bedfordshire Regiment OR the Hertfordshire Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment which existed 1908-1909 (see below). It is not the Hertfordshire Regiment whose device was the hart lodged. The generic description of the star cap badge is "A Maltese cross superimposed on an eight-pointed star. On this the Garter and within the Garter a hart trippant..." If it is a hart trippant on a ford (on its own as a cap badge) it is the Herts Yeomanry. If it is a collar badge I can not tell you as my specialist area is cap badges. I strongly suspect the collar badges would be harts trippant. If you posted a photo it would be useful.

From your original post you say he was in the 4th (Extra Reserve) Bn of the Bedfordshire Regiment. This battalion's cap badge used the hart trippant as described above.

The chronology of the Hertfordshire Regiment is as follows:

1. Corps of Rifle Volunteers in Hertfordshire was first raised in 1859. There were initially 12 different Corps. The Hart trippant was used as a device.

2. Hertfordshire Rifle Volunteer Corps. In 1880 the various Corosp of Rifle Volunteers were reorganised and consolidated into the RVCs. The 1st and 2nd Hertfordshire RVCs were formed.. Again the hart trippant was used as a device.

3. In 1881 the 1st Hertfordshire RVC was designated the 1st (Hertfordshire) Volunteer Battalion of the Bedforshire Regiment. The 2nd Herts RVC similarly was designated the 2nd (Hertfordshire) Volunteer Battalion. Again, the hart trippant was used as a device. Sometimes the old RVCs took many years to convert titles to their new designations. In the case of the 1st and 2nd Herts RVCs it seems by 1887 they had changed titles.

4. In 1908 when the Territorial Force was formed, the 1st VB and 2nd VB Bedfordshire Regiment formed the Hertfordshire Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regt. (Territorial Force) The hart trippant was still used.

5. In 1909 when the Hertfordshire Regiment was formed from Hertfordshire Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment the device changed to a hart lodged.

The authority on cap badges is Kipling & King however it is not always correct. It records the Hertfordshire Regiment cap badge with the hart lodged as starting from 1908. This is not quite correct as the very very brief existence of the Hertfordshire Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment between 1908 and 1909 will attest. The attached photo shows the full dress helmet plate of this battalion which was worn 1908-1909. You can see the hart trippant. This is from my collection. The central device of the helmet plates were typically used as the forage cap badge. I also have a number of similar helmet plates for the Bedfordshire Regiment showing a similar hart trippant.

[Beselare]

Dear Martin

I have tried to send an attachment with the photos of the badges, but I received a message that the file was too big to upload. Is it possible for you to send me your e-mail address so that I can send it that way?

Best Regards

Bob

[FROGSMILE]

Dear Martin

I have tried to send an attachment with the photos of the badges, but I received a message that the file was too big to upload. Is it possible for you to send me your e-mail address so that I can send it that way?

Best Regards

Bob

I don't know if you already have them, but I thought you might like to see a picture of the cap badge and shoulder title whilst the regiment was in the Territorial Force.

[badjez]

Please find attached a picture of an OSD bronze cap badge as worn by 4th Bn, Bedfordshire Ret (Herts Militia) from about 1902 until c1919. The authority for this is from Lt Col John Sainsbury's book 'The hertfordshire Regiment. An illustrated History' (ISBN 0-948555-16-5) Page 149, Plate 8.4

This photo is of a badge in my collection. It has blade fittings. The Herts Yeomanry and Berkhamsted School OTC cap badges are very similar, differing only in that they do not have a titled scroll. The latter badge has been wrongly pictured as a Herts Yeomanry OR badge in a recent reference book on Gt War badges.

The 4th Bn were extraordinarily released from the Fixed Defences at Harwich and joined 190 Bde, 63 (Royal Naval) Div in July 1916. They participated in the closing stages of the First Battle of The Somme.

Stephen.