Deactivation Question

[Deerhunter]

Hope this is not a stupid question:

Are UK deactivation certificates valid in other EU countries, or do deactivated weapons need to be re-inspected if offered for sale abroad? Equally, are there limitations on the types of weapons permitted in other EU countries? I'm thinking specifically France, Germany, Belgium, and the Netherlands.

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, I can not find any references to the subject elsewhere on the Forum.

[TonyE]

I think it is a question you will have to address to the Home Office or possibly the Proof House. There are different rules and regulations in each of the EU countries about live weapons so there may well be for de-acts.

I know my European Fire Arms Pass allows me to take my live weapons to other EU countries but it is not an area where one wants to take chances!

regards

TonyE

[Pete1052]

A gun dealer I used to know here in the U.S. used to say that ignorance of the law is no excuse. He had a Class III license that allowed him to sell machine guns but he had to know the law and all of its ramifications in and out.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Its a mess of a situation...

for example... A French Deactivation is not valid in Germany, because it is not deactivated enough.... however, the more thorough German deactivation is not valid in France because it does not have the official French deactivation paper....

Start with that as a base and see how much more complication can be added to the pie....

Unfortunately every country made its deactivation rules ignoring what the neighbour was doing.

[T8HANTS]

It has been said you that if you take your de-acts abroad, you cannot re-import them under the VCR bill, even though it is you property, that would need checking. In old days you were Ok in France and Belgium, Holland and Germany I cannot comment on.

G

[auchonvillerssomme]

Deerhunter, as part of your question talks about sale of de-activated weapons abroad you may find it useful talking to

Import of weapons

Department of Trade & Industry

Import Licensing Branch

Queensway House

West Precinct

Billingham

TS23 2NF

Telephone: 01642 364351

Fax: 01642 364269

Email: enquiries.ilb@dti.gsi.gov.uk

Export of weapons

Department of Trade & Industry

Export Licensing Unit

4 Abbey Orchard Street

London

SW1P 2HT

Telephone: 020 7215 8070

Fax: 020 7215 0558

Email: eco.help@dti.gsi.gov.uk

It may be that these dept's are only interested in live weapons but it will be worth crossing the t's.

Mick

[auchonvillerssomme]

I am currently selling a property in France and the regulations about bringing anything military back are so vague I'm not taking any chances and getting rid in France.

[Garron]

Hey Deerhunter

Try asking here,

www.wwiireenacting.co.uk

They seem to go to those countries carrying deacts to re-enact.

PS Any other countries deactivated firearms illegal in the UK, they dont meet the British specs for deactivation and are not proofed by London or Birmingham so are techincally classed as live under UK law.

Gaz

[Marco]

A French Deactivation is not valid in Germany, because it is not deactivated enough....

And a German deac goes not far enough for The Netherlands.

This turns out to be a nice and short explanation.

Regards,

Marco

[Deerhunter]

All,

Many thanks for your responses. This tells me one thing; that I should not assume any aspect of this to be straightforward, and should not risk falling foul of any legislation, be that British or on mainland Europe.

Rgds,

DH

[Pete1052]

Possibly the embassies or consulates of nations on the continent could answer these questions. Putting specific questions in writing would probably be better than a phone call.

[Pete1052]

If one had hard copies of letters or emails to and from the appropriate government authorities regarding the transfer of a deact weapon from one nation to another they would be a good thing to have in the event violations of the law were to be alleged. Though it might not stop a person from being charged with a crime it could entered as evidence to law enforcement authorities or judges and juries that the suspect or defendant had done all that a reasonable and prudent person could be expected to do to stay within the letter and spirit of the law.

[Gunner Bailey]

Deerhunter

All I can add is that I regularly see UK deacts for sale in France and I know that a few UK dealers (such as D&B Militaria) sell deacts at fairs in Belgium and Germany. It may be worth calling D&B as they are at the coalface for this.

John

[truthergw]

I am not a collector but I recall not very long ago, a group who purchased some articles at a military fair in Belgium but had the articles confiscated in France and I think were fined. There was a discussion either here on the forum or on the WFA front forum. Simply a warning that things are very complicated and there seemed to be a great deal of confusion as to what was legal, what documentation was required and so on. Ca' canny, I would say.

[Gunner Bailey]

I do remember talking to someone around the 90th Anniversary of the Somme when a lot of re-enactors crossed the channel with deacts and the policy seemed to be the deacts were handed over to the ship's purser for the duration of the voyage and handed back as they were getting ready to leave the ship (Speedferries in that case). Customs being informed in advance at both ends.

Further to my previous post I have just heard that D&B buy on the continent rather than sell there but they must know the rules.

John