Hoplophile Posted 15 March , 2011 Share Posted 15 March , 2011 Prior to US entry into World War I, the US Army Ordnance Department was slowly assembling a "system of mobile artillery" that included a 4.7-inch gun and a 4.7-inch howitzer. The 4.7-inch gun (Model 1906) has the distinction of being the only American-designed field piece to find a home in the order of battle of the American Expeditionary Force. The 4.7-inch howitzer, however, was a much less successful weapon. There is evidence, in the form of a handbook that was printed in 1917, that the weapon was produced and mounted on a pedestal mount. I can find no evidence that the piece was ever mounted on a wheeled carriage. With that in mind, I am wondering if anyone has ever seen a picture of this howitzer, a detailed description, or, mirabile dictu, the piece itself. I have already looked through the annual reports of the US Army Ordnance Department, the back issues of the (US) Field Artillery Journal, and the various official handbooks and semi-official textbooks published between 1905 and 1925. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 15 March , 2011 Share Posted 15 March , 2011 I remember a row of medium wheeled howitzers on Aiming Circle Hill at Fort Sill, Oklahoma used for training people how to use aiming circles. I don't think they're the model you're describing -- IIRC they were a British model of Great War vintage. They had a distinctive band on the muzzle of the barrel. Addendum: There may be information about it in this publication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 16 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2011 Many thanks for the tip. I shall make good use of inter-library loan this week. By the way, I did find a description in a catalog published by the Bethlehem Steel Company in 1916. This catalog, published in both English and Spanish, offers a wide variety of field pieces for sale, and includes pieces of both British and American design. (Methinks that someone was going after the Latin American market while Schneider and Krupp were busy in Europe!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 16 March , 2011 Share Posted 16 March , 2011 Hi Bruce. What did they do with the 4.7" howitzer on a pedestal mount — coastal defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 16 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2011 The 4.7-inch howitzer on a pedestal mount is a mystery to me. I hope another Pal has some idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 16 March , 2011 Share Posted 16 March , 2011 During the Great War the U.S. Army had a Field Artillery and a Coast Artillery, the latter sometimes being called the old name of "Heavy Artillery." I believe Fort Monroe, Virginia was the old Coast Artillery School. The pedestal mount may well have been an improvisation because it hardly seems mobile enough for the Field Artillery. Incidentally, Bruce, if you're ever in Monterey, California, the Presidio there has some old Civil War tubes by the parade ground that had postwar breechloading conversions, mainly the horizontal wedge type. The Presidio of Monterey was my Dad's U.S. Army reception station in 1943 and I lived next to it when I was in the 7th Infantry Division at Fort Ord. When Dad was at the Presidio in 1943 one of the master sergeants there was a veteran of our Siberian Expedition in 1918-19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 16 March , 2011 Share Posted 16 March , 2011 The 4.7-inch howitzer on a pedestal mount is a mystery to me. I hope another Pal has some idea! It's only slightly bigger than the 105mm gun pedestal-mounted on later WW1 U-boats, and two 7.5" howitzers were mounted (somehow) aboard HMS Vindictive for the Zeebrugge Raid. Was the pedestal-mounted 4.7" howitzer perhaps an 'export model' for use on river gunboats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 16 March , 2011 Share Posted 16 March , 2011 Bruce, another thing you could try would be calling or writing the museum at Fort Sill. They have quite a collection of U.S. and foreign artillery pieces dating from the post-Civil War period. Also, the Morris Swett Library in Snow Hall at that Army post has a wealth of artillery-related books, manuals and documents. They have a website that is available here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 17 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2011 Many thanks to all who have helped. You've provided some valuable clues! Now, while I pursue this, I'll post another conundrum, that of the 3-inch mountain howitzer, Model 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 17 March , 2011 Share Posted 17 March , 2011 The Morris Swett Library has some amazing stuff. When I was in the Field Artillery Officer Advanced Course in 1981-82 we had an assignment to write an historical research paper. Me and two other guys had to submit a paper on the Lorraine Campaign in France in 1944. The Morris Swett Library had bound volumes of Third Army's weekly and monthly Artillery Section reports for the entire period. Once when I was copying pages from them another guy jumped on me when he saw the "Secret" stamp, until I showed him the declassification stamp. Oh well, lost youth ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 17 March , 2011 Share Posted 17 March , 2011 I put "4.7-inch howitzer carriage" in Google books and got about 1700 hits. http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bkv%3Af&tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=4.7-inch+howitzer&btnG=Search+Books#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&tbo=1&tbs=bks:1%2Cbkv%3Af&q=4.7-inch+howitzer+carriage&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=5d1d929acc6e9dae There are several mentions of a Model 1908 and Model 1909 carriage for the 4.7-inch howitzer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 17 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2011 This is excellent! I Googled in all sorts of different ways, but never thought to include the word "carriage." Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 17 March , 2011 Share Posted 17 March , 2011 This is excellent! I Googled in all sorts of different ways, but never thought to include the word "carriage." Many thanks! Apologies for intruding on your thread Bruce but your "message box" isn't accepting anymore PMs. I though if I quoted your post you might read this post and arrange to allow me to send you a PM (it's just about an article I think you wrote on Bertrix, Maissin, Anloy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 18 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 18 March , 2011 The 1907 Model of the 4.7-inch howitzer was used in the Fort Riley experiments of October 1909, which served both to test experimental field pieces and study various types of field fortifications. The 1907 Model of the 3-inch mountain howitzer was also tested in this experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 30 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Thanks to the intrepid inter-library loan librarian at the Gray Research Center (here in beautiful downtown Quantico, Virginia, USA), I am now aware of a place where one can download a remarkable catalogue published by Bethlehem Steel Company in 1916. This is the best single source that I have yet to find on the "system of mobile artillery" that was being developed by the US Army Ordnance Department between 1905 and 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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