Garron Posted 10 March , 2011 Share Posted 10 March , 2011 Hey Pals, I bought a Carcano 1891/97 TS bayonet, it was quite cheap as the blade is bent apart from that its in pretty good nick and by the pics it should clean up to a good standard. The blade is brightish with a small amounts of active surface rust on the hilt the grips need a clean up too. Just wondering if any pals have experience is straitening a bent blade? any tips or techniques that will stop me from turning this into a fighting knife or should this be a 'why'd ya do it moment' Probably shouldn't have bought it for that reason, but as you might know from my past projects, I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and get stuck in to finding a diamond in the rough. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 March , 2011 Share Posted 10 March , 2011 The short answer Gaz, is that it can't be done ... sorry.!! At least not successfully in my experience anyway, and I have tried to the point of desperation a few times. Best just to keep it as a 'war relic' and explain to anyone who cares that it was definitely done in the midst of 'battle' ..... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 March , 2011 Thanks S>S, If you don't take a chance you wont know. Got it cheap so I don't mind. They seem to be uncommon compared to the regular 1891's figured I try my luck. The mounting style interested me as its not like any other I've seen. Well I've got my Italian example now... until a better condition one comes along. There is a tutorial I found on google basically two covered/padded hardened steel rods in the fullers grove and vice tightened on it, the thinking the bayonet will bend back before the rods do... won't be trying that. I thought there was an approved method. Its going to be wall mounted anyway so wont be able to tell. Laying flat its not that noticeable from the pictures I've seen. Just need for it to be delivered to see exactly what its like and give it a quick clean up. Gaz gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 11 March , 2011 Share Posted 11 March , 2011 Hi Garron, If it was me I would check out the local blacksmith, (they are still around) and they understand metals better than most. Explain what you want to do and what you want it to look like. I had a sword where the last ten inches from the tip was badly rusted. I took it to a metal polisher, the sparks flew and I thought I had made a horrible mistake but he gradually brought it back to a fine polish and you couldn't tell the difference. It pays to consult the experts. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 March , 2011 Hey Khaki, Just had a look on the yell.com and there are a few around closest one is 20+ miles away, but yeah might be worth a phone call and ask, they all seem to do restoration work so might be worth giving one a call. Thought the cost might be somewhat prohibitive as I don't think its going to be cheap. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 11 March , 2011 Share Posted 11 March , 2011 Hi Gaz, You might want to see a hobbyist blacksmith, if you have a 'historic village ' tourist display you usualy find them there, I have found that even the tradesmen blacksmiths get very interested in something new as a challenge and don't usually charge too much. I don't think applying heat and hammer or bending would be very expensive. Make sure that he is already working his forge and don't expect him to give it priority over his daily work. A humble approach is better. Keep us informed with your results. Good Luck khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 March , 2011 Not sure if there is one in St Fagans museum or Cosmeston medieval village just outside Cardiff, might be worth a try. One of the trade Blacksmiths is near a friend, so double reason to try it. Shame I wasnt still in school we had a forge in school (rarely used) the teacher would have liked a challenge shame he has retired now. It was shipped today so probably take a week to arrive but once I work out a plan, I shall let you know. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 17 March , 2011 Share Posted 17 March , 2011 Hey Garron, Just had a thought, if possible some before and after photo's would be interesting to see. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 17 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2011 Hey Khaki, It was shipped the 13th not the 11th as I first thought, so should be here pretty soon. I'll take photos when it arrives... I'm shelving the project for a bit as I've got my eye on something else and need to save I'll reveal that once I scrap together enough cash (could take a while) gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wade Posted 17 March , 2011 Share Posted 17 March , 2011 I think careful use of a set of hand rollers combined with some gentle heating over the bend and to either side a little might be the answer to progressively straightening the blade. It depends on how bent it is I suppose. You'd need to take it past the point so that it finally rests as a straight blade again. Heating and hammering would cause too many marks. Any experienced sheet metal worker or fabricator ought to be able to do it. I've certainly used hand rollers to straighten a curved bar before to very good effect with a bit of patience but the curve was even throughout and of course it wasn't a hardened and tempered piece. Part of the problem would be taking care when gently heating not to cause oxide colours from developing as these would spoil the patina, and although I suppose you could treat the whole thing again I think it's a bad road to go down. You might be able to do it without heating though. If it's to be mounted and you can't really see it then maybe it's best left alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 31 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2011 Well its finally here, had to pay fee's but that is another story. You can see the bend, the photos on ebay were somewhat flattering to this...its not in the greatest of conditions nicks pings dents ect but light surface dirt and small rust patches should come off with some gentle cleaning. Its Brescia made, with a small MA in a circle stamped on the other side ricasso, on the cross guard its stamped F884 Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 31 March , 2011 Share Posted 31 March , 2011 good photos, hope something can be done with it, I am sure that some improvement can be achieved. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 31 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2011 Hey Khaki, Thanks, fingers crossed... defiantly going to clean up later whilst keeping some character though, the bend is not a priotity right now as I said in an earlier post this is a side project for the moment . I just bought one of the IMA Nepalese cache Martini Henry MkIV's. Not WW1 I know but my collecting range seems to be branching out, thats the rifle with all the dust and storage gunk cleaned off, next step is the gently taking off little blooms of rust but for 124 years old, its looking good. Need to clean the bore too as that looks like a sewer but the rifling look in good nick under the grime. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanewt Posted 12 April , 2011 Share Posted 12 April , 2011 Hello Not an arms man by any stretch but been up to my nostrils in muck for years needing to recover all manner of difficult to obtain items. Annealing, straightening, hardening and re tempering by heat treatment is relatively simple but restoring the finish is laborious so costly. Often if it's bent with no cracks evident then it may well straighten cold. The suggestion of pressing between rods is OK but the rods should be at right angles to the blade and three in number. One at the centre of bend on convex side the other two at outer ends of the bend on concave side. As stated before spring back has to be allowed for. Simple clamping in a heavy duty vice or press gives accurate control and frequent incremental adjustments and applications as confidence increases!! No doubt one of the forum experts has access to the original spec. for the steel grade and finished hardness, elasticity etc but that's another few para's. Good Luck PS Would that Martini Henry have the obsolete calibre 577/450?? allowing purchase/ownership without certification or deactivation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 12 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2011 Hi, Yeah mine is in 577/450 Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Brock Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 I'm with JulesW. It got bent cold so it should bend back cold. Those italics are there for a reason as it may snap as well. Heating without the oxidizing colors showing up will do little good. Those colors begin and end between 400 and 600 degrees F or so. For the metal to move it will need to be a dull red at least. The bend is near the tip so it could be heated easily with a torch and simply pinched in a vise. In heating however, some sort of heat sink would need to be attached to the blade near the handle so's not to damage the wood. A big C-clamp would do it. Since you're not going to be bayoneting anyone, it shouldn't matter that it will lose its heat treatment. The patina would go away though. Mayonnaise artfully stippled on and left overnight will fake it - sort of convincingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanewt Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 As Dan says protecting the opposite end with a heat sink is a must considerable heat is used . Standing it upright in a bucket of water is a well tried 'smith's dodge. The mayo treatment for patina works well as does rubbing with Fernox for "blueing" effect or saturated solution of tea for "browning" finish and miraculous removal of surface rust' Keep us informed please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 May , 2011 Share Posted 28 May , 2011 The mayo treatment for patina works well as does rubbing with Fernox for "blueing" effect or saturated solution of tea for "browning" finish and miraculous removal of surface rust' Just saw this tip. I recently got a Berthier 2nd pattern whose cross-guard and scabbard had been stripped back to bare steel by the previous owner... I was wondering how I could 'brown-up' at least the scabbard so it doesn't look so bright'n'new, and your 'steeped tea' solution sounds like it might be the solution (no pun intended!). Any further advice welcomed - like how strong the tea (it can be teaspoon-upright strength in Turkey!), how long a soak? What about drying afterwards? Will this method encourage corrosion of the metal? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanewt Posted 29 May , 2011 Share Posted 29 May , 2011 Saturated solution means the water won't take any more infusion. Just like you say a spoon stands in it. The tannic acid in the tea actually removes rust deposit. White vinegar soak will remove old blueing ready for re treating. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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