Paul Dorrell Posted 2 March , 2011 Share Posted 2 March , 2011 My late uncle, Thomas Edgar Baker No. 1409386, enlisted in Portsmouth on 5th Jan.1914, joined the BEF in France 7th/8th Aug 1915 with 20 (Heavy) Battery RGA, and was then posted to Salonika. I undertsand he left France (would it be from Marseilles?) on 21st November 1915 and arrived in Salonika on 11th December. He remained there until 19th August 1918. The only thing I know about his service in Salonika is that he suffered several bouts of Malaria. Can anyone tell me whether war diaries exist for 20 HB please? I'm plodding through the National Archives search facility but it's returned nearly 1900 results. Does anyone have any information concerning actions that the battery may have been involved in - or more detail of the transport arrangements - ships names for example? As usual with my enquiries - anything will be welcome! Regards, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 2 March , 2011 Share Posted 2 March , 2011 XX Heavy Battery did go to Salonika and came under the General HQ, rather than Divisional level. The Official History, Volume 2, says that it had 4 x 60-pdr guns but the only time it records the Battery in action is at the end of May 1918, when it took part in a secondary action related to the attack on Skra di Legen (page 90). That's clearly not going to be the only time, of course, and they would almost certainly have been involved in all the major battles. There were too few heavy guns of any type for them not to have been involved. The Battery's Diary, running from October 1916 to May 1919, is at Kew under WO 95/4798. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 2 March , 2011 Share Posted 2 March , 2011 20 Heavy Battery RGA To Western Front 07 .08.1915 Joined X Corps 9.8.15, attached to 51st Division, 13.8.15 to 31.8.15 To VII Corps 5.9.15 til 30.9.15 serving with “Buckles” Group. To 21 HAG 7.11.15 Moved to Salonika with 22nd Division, arriving Marseilles 8.11.15. Arrived Salonika 5.12.15. Joined 37 Heavy Brigade in No 2 Group, XII Corps Artillery 24.2.16. To 61 HAG 1.9.16 To “Molesworth’s” Group 30.9.15. To 75 HAG 21.1.17 To 37 HAG 19.5.17 To 20 HAG 13.10.18 To Base Area 25.10.18 No subsequent change TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dorrell Posted 2 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2011 Thanks Keith, I'll go to Kew and have read - now I know what I should be reading! Many thanks. I'm not sure I understand what the difference is between being under General HQ rather than Divisional Command. Can you explain how that would affect their deployment please? Regards, paul Thanks for that info Terry - it's greatly appreciated. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 2 March , 2011 Share Posted 2 March , 2011 Paul I have just amended the first date , which should have read 7th August, not 17th. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 2 March , 2011 Share Posted 2 March , 2011 Paul, there was a general trend for the artillery command to move higher up the command structure as the War went on. The heavier artillery units, in particular, were always in relatively short supply and I think the Army felt that they could be better combined and coordinated for particular events from higher up the chain. Terry's post has a lot more detail than I have but the last two changes need to be taken with a grain of salt. The War in Macedonia ended at the end of September 1918 so the move to 20th HAG was probably administrative and the move to Base Area would be the start of the demobilisation process. All of the AA Sections - my baby - moved to the Base Area, i.e. close to Salonika, quite soon after the capitulation of the Central Powers and you fairly quickly start to see reports of men being transferred and demobbed. The Diary should give you information of all of this but you might also want to see whether there are Diaries for the Groups, too. They would give you the broader view. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dorrell Posted 2 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2011 Thanks again Keith - much appreciated. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 2 March , 2011 Share Posted 2 March , 2011 Paul, Where did that service number come from? Are we talking about 40203? Rgds Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dorrell Posted 3 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2011 Hi Paul, His daughter has his army records and she gave it to me - by email. I'll check that she got it right and get back to you. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dorrell Posted 3 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2011 Paul, His Regular Army Certificate of Service(red book) serial no.6(m)ra288 gives his Army No.as 1409386. His Army Certificate of Education also gives No.1409386. But, Army number 40203 does appear on some documents but is crossed out. Some of his records show both - with one or the other deleted, but from 1926 onwards it's 1409386. What does that imply please? Did he remuster at some time? Paul . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 3 March , 2011 Share Posted 3 March , 2011 The Army renumbered completely and in a new style after WW1, in the twenties IIRC. As he served after WW! this may account for the longer one. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marilyn.dorrell Posted 3 March , 2011 Share Posted 3 March , 2011 My late uncle, Thomas Edgar Baker No. 1409386, enlisted in Portsmouth on 5th Jan.1914, joined the BEF in France 7th/8th Aug 1915 with 20 (Heavy) Battery RGA, and was then posted to Salonika. I undertsand he left France (would it be from Marseilles?) on 21st November 1915 and arrived in Salonika on 11th December. He remained there until 19th August 1918. The only thing I know about his service in Salonika is that he suffered several bouts of Malaria. Can anyone tell me whether war diaries exist for 20 HB please? I'm plodding through the National Archives search facility but it's returned nearly 1900 results. Does anyone have any information concerning actions that the battery may have been involved in - or more detail of the transport arrangements - ships names for example? As usual with my enquiries - anything will be welcome! Regards, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marilyn.dorrell Posted 3 March , 2011 Share Posted 3 March , 2011 Hi! Paul, Sorry no extra information on your enquire, but thought It was a strange coincidence that I had only Jusy become a member and your name should pop up, as you can see we share the same surname, Dorrell. Good luck with your searches Regards marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dorrell Posted 3 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2011 Hello Marilyn, Welcome to the Forum. I don't know whether we're related or not. My family originated in London'd East End and before that Buckinghamshire (my paternal granddad - James - was born in Homerton, just north of Hackney Wick in 1884). I'm in Leicester. Who knows we share the same roots! Best wishes, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dorrell Posted 3 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2011 Thanks for the info Keith - but what's IIRC please? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 3 March , 2011 Share Posted 3 March , 2011 IIRC - if I remember correctly. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dorrell Posted 3 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2011 IIRC - if I remember correctly. Keith Ah! My education continues apace. Thank you. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akduerden Posted 11 March , 2011 Share Posted 11 March , 2011 Following are War Diary entries relating to the 37th Heavy Brigade (37th H.A.G.) from the 26th Division CRA. May help in pin pointing where they were and what engagements they were involved in... 09/08/19165.00AM. Advanced report centre near survey mark N.W. MALOVCI opened. 115th & 116th Brigades ready for action. 117th Brigade in reserve. D/115th Brigade covering left flank 22nd Division. Operation commenced by fire from Heavy Batteries. 12.42PM. 20 Signallers asked for by 12th Corps for 37th Heavy Brigade. These supplied by 117th Brigade. 20 men from 114th Brigade wired for to replace these. B and D/116th Brigade finished firing a few registering rounds (24 per battery). 1.20PM. Mountain Battery No.2 reported taking over zone covering left 22nd Division from D/115th Brigade at 12.10 hours. Little reply to bombardment by enemy. Between 12.30PM and 1.00PM about 50 HE shells fell in GOKCELLI around 115th Brigade HQ. 8.00PM. Advance report centre closed. 27/08/1916 Quiet morning. Information received that 26th Division was extending to right to take over HILL 420 and 26th Division R.A. would take over from 22nd Division R.A. Preparation made during morning. 2.00PM. 26th Division Operation Order No.19 received. 26th Division Artillery Operation Order No.7 issued during afternoon. 114th Brigade prepared to relieve 98th Brigade (22nd Division). 114th Brigade Signallers lent to 37th Heavy Brigade were wired for but did not rejoin till dark. 08/05/1917 00:30 hours. About 20 gas shells were fired near VLADAJA VALLEY. 18Pdr;’s swept enemy fire all night. Enemy very quiet. During the day wire cutting and bombardment programme was carried out. Enemy replied very feeble 13:00 hours. Instructions issued altering periods of evening bombardment bursts to 19:15 and 20:30 hours. X = 21:50 hours also issued. 21:04 hours. Bombardment Group report barrage all along front, LAKE to PETIT COURONNE (repeated 12th Corps R.A., 12th Corps H.A., 37th H.A.G.) 21:06 hours. Bombardment Group report fire almost died down. 21:16 hours. Heavy barrage in front of ROCKLEY at uncertain intervals (115th Brigade reported). (Repeated 12th Corps R.A., 12th Corps H.Q., 37th H.A.G.) 21:25 hours. 114th Brigade report. Searchlight on LAKE SHORE North of DOIRAN very active. 21:28 hours. 37th H.A.G. report trying to counter searchlight. 21:29 hours. 2 Hostile Batteries true bearing from C6 360 and 357 reported by A/115th Brigade to be active in JUMEAUX RAVINE. (Repeated 12th Corps R.A and H.A., 37th H.A.G.) Wire from A/115th Brigade handed in at 20:45 hours. 21:40 hours. 114th Brigade HABoc report enemy Artillery very quiet. 21:52 hours. ? 115th Brigade report enemy gassing ROCKLEY (verbal) 21:44 hours. Red lights from O4 to PEARSE RAVINE (many). Barrage opened (verbal). 21:48 hours. Red lights from O1, O2 and O3. Barrage opened. 21:55 hours. Heavy enemy barrage along whole front. Observed from HAMPSHIRE RIDGE at 21:40 and 21:45 hours. 21:58 hours. Heavy rifle fire and bombing in O2 observed from HAMPSHIRE RIDGE. 22.10 hours. No lights from O2. but still some from O1. Machine Gun fire probably O2. 22:12 hours. Battery behind GORTS reported very active. (Verbal 115th Brigade). 22:12 hours. Very few lights from O2 and O3 but many from O1. Heavy barrage in front of ROCKLEY and TORTUE. 22:12 hours. Enemy shelling PEARSE RAVINE with Gas shells (22:09) 22:15 hours. Heavy rifle fire from O1. 22:17 hours. Barrage still continues in front of O3. 22:20 hours. Lights going up from behind O1. 22:25 hours. Quiet in O3 and left part of O2. Bombing going on in O1 and right part of O2. (22:18) 22:27 hours. More rifle fire from O1, especially at 22:23 hours. 22:30 hours. Enemy Barrage slackening except in front of O1. (22:27) 22:33 hours. Still heavy rifle fire from O1. (22:30) 22:39 hours. Rifle fire dying down slightly all along the front. (22:34) 22:42 hours. Very lights fewer and appear to be going up from behind enemy front line. Enemy Artillery very quiet. 22:45 hours. Only intermittent rifle fire. (22:40) 22:50 hours. 116th Brigade report ARGYLS (12th Bn, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) in O2. BLACK WATCH (10th Bn, Black Watch) being counter-attacked. Verbal from Col. GORDON 22:55 hours. ? to 114th and 115th Brigades. 22:57 hours. Rifle fire in O1 slackening. Enemy barrage considerably reduced. 23:00 hours. Verbal from Col. GORDON through F.O.O. BLACK WATCH (10th Bn, Black Watch) asked for close barrage to be kept on and a Battery of 115th Brigade to be put on DEEP RAVINE. 23:01 hours. Wire OP 241 sent to 115th Brigade asking for Battery to be turned on DEEP RAVINE 23:06 hours. Heavy rifle fire from O1. No more on any other parts of the front. 23:09 hours. Col. ELLIOT T is asked for more fire in region of DEEP RAVINE. 23:14 hours. (?) 115th Brigade report Enemy have expended much ammunition on 22nd Division front. Fire now slackened. 23:15 hours. Through to 114th Brigade. 23:19 hours. Very little artillery fire. Machine Gun fire in O1, O2 and O3 (22:35 114th) 23:19 hours. Rifle fire in O1 has almost died out. (23:15) 23:23 hours. Col. ELLIOTS Group calls back one 4.5” Section to X1 and one 6” Section to North of X1 (23:20) 23:27 hours. Red and White lights now going up from behind PETIT COURONNE only (23:23) 23:29 hours. All rifle fire stopped (23:27) 23:32 hours. 37th H.A.G. (verbal) report all ? spring again. 23:36 hours. 114th Brigade report crest line Batteries from CINQUE to LAKE SHORE putting up a shrapnel barrage on O1, O2 and O3 (23:29) 23:43 hours. Communications re-established with 115th Brigade. (verbal) 23:46 hours. A & S HIGHLANDERS (12th Bn, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) reported safely in – reported by F.O.O. (verbal) 23:48 hours. B/115th Brigade asked to be kept on to DEEP RAVINE (B.M.R.A. 115th) (verbal) 23:51 hours. 37th H.A.G. asked if crest Batteries have been stopped. (B.M.R.A.) (verbal) 23:56 hours. (verbal over field phone) 116th Brigade have been instructed to turn on front trenches O3, BLACK WATCH (10th Bn, Black Watch) having been turned out by counter attack (turned out of Z19 – Z20) 09/05/1917 00:09 hours. 117th Brigade told to increase rate of fire particularly on DEEP RAVINE 00:14 hours. 114th Brigade report (verbal) trenches about 2ft deep and more wire and Officers asked for. Information from an Officer who has come back from O3. 00:16 hours. (OP 245) Bombardment Group told not to increase rate of fire when ordered must not be slackened unless ordered by G.O.C. 77th Infantry Brigade or this Office. 00:19 hours. 76th Infantry Brigade are in position having crossed JUMEAUX RAVINE. 00:20 hours. Col. ELLIOT acknowledged OP 245 by wire. 00:35 hours. OXFORD & BUCKS (7th Bn, Oxford & Bucks. Light Infantry) sent back Lamp message for Reserve Company & all Machine Guns and report all Officers B Company wounded. B.M.R.A from Col. MACKENZIE 00:36 hours. Heavy barrage between TORTUE and PETIT COURONNE 00:37 hours. Passed to 37th H.A. Group (OP 247) 00:40 hours. OX & BUCKS (7th Bn, Oxford & Bucks. Light Infantry) in enemy’s trenches. (Come from ELLIOTS Group). Sent on to 116th Brigade for information 00:46 hours. Signalling Lamp established on PETIT COURONNE. 114th Brigade trying to read it from HAMPSHIRE RIDGE (Senders time 00:40) 00:55 hours. Any reports from F.O.O.’s yet? (B.M.R.A to 116th) 00:59 hours. OX & BUCKS (7th Bn, Oxford & Bucks. Light Infantry) being heavily shelled by crest Batteries periodically. (Col. HOWARD to Col. HANBURY to B.M.R.A) passed on to Heavies 01:04 hours. Lack of information (116th to B.M.R.A) 01:06 hours. Heavy bombing on O4. OX & BUCKS (7th Bn, Oxford & Bucks. Light Infantry) reported suffering heavily (Col. MACKENZIE to B.G.R.A) 01:06 hours. ARGYLS (12th Bn, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) holding O2 (116th to B.M.R.A) 01:09 hours. F.O.O. on PETIT COURONNE reports Trench Mortar in old position very active (Col. MACKENZIE to B.M.R.A) 01:10 hours. Reported to ELLIOTS Group for action. (B.M.R.A to Col. ELLIOT) 01:16 hours. Reported by Col. ADAMS that he has no information of the two companies assaulting O1. Sent out Officer to get information. Lost touch with Officer. (116th to B.M.R.A) 01:17 hours. BERKS. (7th Bn, Royal Berkshire Regiment) assaulting Z34. One more Company moving up. (Col. MACKENZIE to B.M.R.A) Wired to Col. ELLIOT. 01:20 hours. Information to date sent to 12th Corps 01:48 hours. 250 ARGYLS (12th Bn, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) reformed in our front trenches (116th to B.M.R.A). Nothing known of right Battalion. Of left Battalion 40 of 1 Company and 50 of another and Reserve Company are in some spot unknown. 01:49 hours. Asked to shell Y9, Y10, Y11 (Col. ELLIOT to B.G.R.A) 01:50 hours. JUMEAUX RAVINE being occupied. Asked to counter batteries (Col. HOLBROOK to B.M.R.A). B.G.R.A referred unless barrage batteries were quiet. (B.G.R.A to Col. HOLBROOK) 01:57 hours. Can you ? any information as to enemy artillery fire? (B.M.R.A to 114th) 02:06 hours. Telephone rumour through C/114th Brigade reports heavy fighting in O1 and that SCO. RIFLES (11th Bn, the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)) are being pressed – no confirmation can be obtained as yet. (114th to Advanced R.A.) (Senders time 01:30) 02:15 hours. Situation on left – Battalion of O&B (7th Bn, Oxford & Bucks. Light Infantry) are up and BERKS. (7th Bn, Royal Berkshire Regiment) coming up in support but can’t do any good unless Trench Mortar silenced (for action B.G.R.A to Col. ELLIOT) 02:18 hours. 250 of ARGYLS (12th Bn, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) reported to be reforming in our front trench appears to be reserves going up. Lodgement in O2 and in O4. (B.M.R.A to Maj. HENNEPHE) 02:20 hours. ARGYLS (12th Bn, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) reported to be reforming turns out to be Reserve Company preparing to go out. ARGYLS (12th Bn, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) have lodgement in O2. (B.M.R.A to Col. HOLBOOK) 02:22 hours. We have lodgement in O1 (26th Division to B.G.R.A) 02:25 hours. Heavy Artillery report all Enemy Artillery have ceased firing. Can you confirm this. (B.M.R.A to 114th, 115th, 116th, 117th) 02:29 hours. How are you protecting the left of the ARGYLS? (12th Bn, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) (B.G.R.A to Col. GORDON). Howitzers on DEEP RAVINE. 116th Brigade barrage all along RED TRENCH to Z24 (Col. GORDON to B.G.R.A) 02:35 hours. Has Trench Mortar stopped? (B.M.R.A to 115th) 02:35 hours. Reply to OP 251: ‘No’. (115th to Advanced R.A. senders time 02:30) 02:40 hours. Trench Mortar has ceased firing. Fire has been most effective. (115th to B.M.R.A) 02:41 hours. Field Guns still firing and an occasional Howitzer. (116th to B.M.R.A reply to OP 251 senders time 02:38) 02:44 hours. Trench Mortar has ceased firing. (B.M.R.A to Col. ELLIOT) 02:47 hours. Infantry all out off O1, O2 and O3. Put 116th Brigade on Enemy front trenches (B.G.R.A to Col. GORDON) 02:49 hours. All enemy firing has not ceased. (B.M.R.A to Heavies) 02:50 hours. Infantry out off O1, O2 and O3. Bombard front line and support trenches. (B.G.R.A to Col. ELLIOT) 02:53 hours. Infantry out off O1, O2 and O3 (bombed out). Bombarding front line and support trenches again. Trench Mortar has ceased firing. We hold O4. (B.G.R.A to Maj. ?) 03:00 hours. Slow H.E barrage in JUMEAUX RAVINE opposite TORTUE opened at 02:43 hours in response to a call of 5 red lights repeated twice. (114th to Advanced R.A senders time 02:45) 03:00 hours. Bombard front line trenches O1, O2 and O3. Further attack will not be launched before 03:30 hours. (Advanced R.A to 116th repeated 26th Division) 03:01 hours. Bombard front line trenches and support trenches O1, O2 and O3 and keep protecting blocking points for O4. Further attack will not be launched before 03:30 hours. (Advanced R.A to ELLIOTTS GROUP repeated 26th Division and 116th Brigade) 03:06 hours. Slow H.E barrage in JUMEAUX RAVINE opposite TORTUE opened at 02:43 hours in response to a call of 5 red lights repeated twice. (Advanced R.A to H.A. Group) 03:07 hours. BUCKS (7th Bn, Ox & Bucks. Light Infantry) have been strengthened by two Companies BERKS (7th Bn, Royal Berkshire Regiment) and are holding on. Lamp working well from PETIT COURONNE. (Col. MACKENZIE to B.G.R.A) 03:21 hours. X will be time of assault. X-11 Howitzers lift to blocking points. X-10 18Pdrs bombard front line trenches with H.E. X-5 bombardment changes to shrapnel. X hour 18Pdrs lift as at 21:50 hours 8th. (Advanced R.A to 116th) 03:21 hours. No artillery fire on O1, O2, O3 for last ¼ hour.A few heavy H.E. and shrapnel on TORTUE and in JUMEAUX RAVINE opposite TORTUE. (114th to Advanced R.A. senders time 03:10) 03:25 hours. X will be hour of attack. Howitzers will lift at X-10 to blocking points. (Advanced R.A. to ELLIOTS Group) 03:25 hours. We’re attacking at X hour, which I will let you know later. Can you join in. (B.G.R.A to B.G.R.A 22nd Division) Guess there was more involvement after this date but this is all I have for the War Diary. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dorrell Posted 11 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 March , 2011 Thanks for that informtion Andrew - it'll be a great help in understand ing what sort of thing my uncle was involved in. I.m grateful to you for your trouble. Thanks again. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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