Bluff Tunnels Location Ypres 3

[Aurel Sercu]

Sandy,

I think your number of postings is not high enough yet to allow you to send PMs. I'm sure someone will tell you what the number should be. (5 ?)

Kevin,

Thanks for the 3rd officer. I was a little intrigued because something similar (a number of officers - lieutenant-colonel, major, captain) being killed) had happened at the Bluff on March 3, 1916. (Buried at Spoilbank Cemetery). A shell. Of course no relation with 1 Aug. 1917, also since, as it was pointed out by Hugh, they were "missing".

Aurel

[Sandy829]

Aurel,

Thanks for the posts and the admin steer, I am as yet a bit green on the mechanics of this forum, superb resource that it is.

Hugh,

Those aerial pictures are difficult to judge the scale of but horrific when the scale actually becomes apparent, is there an online source for viewing them by any chance?

I now have established the War Diaries for the 20th are at Kew ref WO 95/2639 , looks like another trip to London is in order!

Sandy829

[bierlijn]

Sandy,

I recommend joining the Western Front Association and buying these CDs..

http://www.westernfr...ch-map-dvd.html

Preparing and selling those maps and photos at such a reasonable price is really a most magnificently generous gesture by the WFA.

Here is a description of where the battalion was on 1st August, extracted from this thread http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=96377 with thanks to the original poster David T:

During the Battle of Pilkem Ridge, part of the Passchendaele campaign, the task of the 41st Division was to advance astride the Ypres - Comines Canal and protect the right flank of the main attack by capturing Hollebeke. Before zero hour (03:50) on 31 July 1917, the 20th Battalion, DLI formed up in five waves on a two-company front, with each wave on a two-platoon front. Battalion HQ formed the fifth wave. The left flank of the left company rested on Klein Zillebeke road and the right flank was in touch with the 10th Battalion, Royal West Kent Regiment. The first two waves were to assault the enemy front line, Imperfect Trench or the Red Line, which attack was successful in spite of heavy fire from both artillery and machine guns that survived the British bombardment. The battalion was able to advance a little beyond its second objective, the Blue Line, but it then entered a zone fortified by concrete pillboxes concealing nests of German snipers and bombers. When immovable resistance stopped the advance and men began to dig-in the enemy emerged from their pillboxes but all were, eventually, cleared and a threatened German counter-attack on the left of the line was dispersed by a combination of artillery fire and rifle and Lewis gun fire. Another counter-attack made at dusk the next day was dealt with in similar fashion but, again, all of this was not without a heavy price to pay. The CO, Lieut-Col P. W. North, DSO was badly wounded and casualties numbered four hundred and thirty-one men, including six officers killed and two ORs taken prisoners. Decorations awarded consequent upon this action included a bar to North’s Distinguished Service Order, five MCs, and fourteen Military Medals (MMs).

So this unit is in fact on the extreme left of the divisional front, on the high ground of the Klein Zillebeke spur. That's on the left of Roger's Great Uncle in the 23rd Manchesters.. I would think that your officers were casualties here rather than at The Bluff.

Hugh

[bierlijn]

Here is a map for the attack described above, to the east of the railway line on 31st July 1917. You can see that in fact more progress was eventually made than in the boggy land around Hollebeke. It is somewhat downhill from Klein Zillebeke in the south easterly directiion in which this attack progressed.

You can see the canal bend in the bottom left corner, as in the two previous maps. The start line is top left red dash line, with the first objective sketched in with a dark line. The sketched pencil line 'Oct 1917' is probably beyond the 'Blue Line' objective.

[Roger H]

Hugh

A good map - thanks.

Roger

[mebu]

Hugh, hope you don't mind me pinching your aerial in post 11 (I have same photo and seeing yours gave me idea for then and then)...separate post started.

Regards Peter

[bierlijn]

Fine as long as you keep in this geographical area. My apparently expert knowledge ends about 100 yards either side of the Palingbeek.

[Sandy829]

Hugh

That is most useful info , many thanks.

Thomas Fletcher was on the right flank of the 40th leading D Coy so that puts his area of action near the trenches marked Oblique and Opaque Beef possibly moving down the path of the railway line of the canal itself? Location possibly may be refined by correlating the evidence with the war diary of the 10th Battalion, Royal West Kent Regiment? Looks like an addendum to the next reading session at Kew, anyone have a WO ref for the 10th RWKR?

Sandy829

[chloemily]

Hello, I am the Great-Niece of Edward Whicker BRITTON. I was so thrilled when I recently searched his name on a search engine and discovered that he was being talked about here! Edward was one of four brothers all who served in WW1. He also had half-brothers fighting in the war. I always thought about him when I was a little girl, but didn't know anything else until I managed to get in touch with a second cousin who provided me with photographs of Edward in uniform which were wonderful to see. They also included photos of my Grandad who was a Second Lieutenant in the Devonshire Regiment and his brother Arthur Frederick BRITTON, a Flying Ace, who lost a leg and then sadly succumbed to the dreadful flu epidemic in 1919.

With more information on Edward I applied for his Army records a few years ago which were a fascinating read. It was so sad to read two telegrams, one informed his mother he had been injured and was in a hospital in Calais, and then a year later to say he was missing in action. With all her sons away and being a widow it must have been a terrible time for her.

Five years ago I visited the Menin Gate to see the inscription of his name, and I am going again in November to pay my respects to a very brave soldier.

I look forward to reading any more information about Edward, and also his brother Arthur who was an Observer in the Royal Flying Corp.

I am new to the forum, but once I get the hang of things if anyone is interested I can upload photos of Edward. One thing that interests me, is why Edward was in the Durham Light Infantry when his family were Londoners and as far as I know had no connections with the North East? Was that not unusual? My Grandad (Alfred BRITTON) was in the Devonshire Regiment because I am told it is where his mother came from.

Chloemily

[LydiaB]

Thomas May Fletcher is my Great Great Uncle, on my mother's side, so I am fascinated to read these posts - especially those by Sandy. Thomas was one of three brothers, the other two were Mark and John (Jack). My Great Grandfather was Thomas' older brother Jack and his daughter (my Grandmother) was named after their mother, Margaret Fletcher.

I've always known that Thomas was a very brave man, but despite us having his Military Cross and sword, the family have only recently started to research the background into his death. The newspaper cuttings we have are very vague, so we weren't entirely surprised that there was more to this than meets the eye. I know a little bit about what happened to him, in that he was captured and shot, but would be very grateful indeed if anyone could provide me with some more factual information.

Sandy - I hope you don't mind me asking this, but my mum and I are really interested about your connection to the family. There aren't very many of us left now and we're trying hard to build up as much information as we can. We're planning a visit to Kew next year, although I imagine that it will be a very difficult and emotional trip for us - especially given the correspondence between Thomas' father and the war office. We'd also like to visit the memorial at Menin Gate. My Grandma always said that Thomas didn't have a grave and the information in these posts would seem to back this up. It's a shame.

Anyway, thank you in advance to anyone that can help us. I know that my family will really appreciate it.

[chloemily]

Lydia, I read your post with interest. I wonder if you could tell me what the newspaper articles say about your Great-Uncle?

I am off to Bruge this week and will be visiting the Menin Gate to see my Great-Uncle's name (Second Lieutenant Edward Britton) I will look out for your Uncle's inscription and try and take a photograph if you wish?

Tracy

[LydiaB]

Lydia, I read your post with interest. I wonder if you could tell me what the newspaper articles say about your Great-Uncle?

I am off to Bruge this week and will be visiting the Menin Gate to see my Great-Uncle's name (Second Lieutenant Edward Britton) I will look out for your Uncle's inscription and try and take a photograph if you wish?

Tracy

Hi Tracy

Thank you for getting back to me. It's strange to think that our two Great Uncles probably died together isn't it?

The cuttings don't say much to be honest. We have one from a local paper and one from the London Gazette. Both are similar. They talk about Uncle Tom's conspicuous gallantry and devotion for duty. He sustained a head wound in the assembly area, but despite this, he returned to his company to lead them in the attack. He did this with great gallantry, until wounded a second time, but gained his objective. He was noted for setting a splendid example of fearlessness and energy to his men. What the London Gazette doesn't mention is that he also helped another wounded man to safety. I'm not sure what happened to this man though, or who he was. Do you also have newspaper articles?

My cousin started some research a little while ago, which is what sparked all this off. He found a little bit more about what actually happened that day, but we're still trying to find out more. I don't know if I'm just looking in the wrong place, but it seems to be hard to find out anything concrete. I've sent off for the book about the Wearside Pals that Sandy mentioned though, so perhaps this will help?

We hope to make it to Bruge next year, but I hope that your trip is a successful one. If you do happen to see an inscription for Thomas May Fletcher, then a photograph would be lovely - thank you very much indeed for offering to take this.

Thanks again.

Lydia

[chloemily]

Lydia,

Yes it is strange to think our Great-Uncles probably died together and here we are talking about them some 94 years later, lovely to keep their memories alive. I will happily take a photograph for you of the inscription. It's a great trip spending time in Bruge, but visiting some WW1 historical sites such as Ypres, the Menin Gate and Tyne Cot Cemetery. I don't have any newspaper articles sadly, but Edward's war file which I obtained from the National Archives is really interesting and even includes copies of the two handwritten telegrams one telling of Edward being injured and the following year when he was killed in action. Very moving. Have you obtained Thomas's war file? I would be interested to hear about the book Wearside Pals.

Regards

Tracy

[LydiaB]

Lydia,

Yes it is strange to think our Great-Uncles probably died together and here we are talking about them some 94 years later, lovely to keep their memories alive. I will happily take a photograph for you of the inscription. It's a great trip spending time in Bruge, but visiting some WW1 historical sites such as Ypres, the Menin Gate and Tyne Cot Cemetery. I don't have any newspaper articles sadly, but Edward's war file which I obtained from the National Archives is really interesting and even includes copies of the two handwritten telegrams one telling of Edward being injured and the following year when he was killed in action. Very moving. Have you obtained Thomas's war file? I would be interested to hear about the book Wearside Pals.

Regards

Tracy

Hi Tracy

No, we haven't got his war file - as I say, we're quite new to this so aren't really sure what's available to us. How would I go about getting it? Do we need to prove that he's related to us?

I'll let you know when the book arrives and if there's anything in it about Edward.

Lydia

[chloemily]

Hi Lydia,

You won't have to prove you were related, I did it all on line. I will get back to you end of next week when I am back and let you know where to start looking.

Regards

Tracy

[LydiaB]

Thanks Tracy much appreciated. Have a good trip.

Lydia