Lists of Changes

[Muerrisch]

I ought to know the answer to this but:

I am interested in the Lists of Changes [esp. relating to badges] between say 1860 and 1925.

1. Do the Lists cover specific periods, and if so which, or were they cumulative.

2. Are they indexed, or in sections [such as badges, weapons, clothing ......]

3. Where are they to be found.

All this with a big please, and yes, I really ought to know the answer!

[Muerrisch]

pay attention there!

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Grumpy

If you contact the librarian at the Royal School of Artillery at Larkhill they may be able to help. When I was at the REME Wksp there in 87 they had a complete set from pre war to the mid 1920's. If I recall correctly they were not in any specific order I remember reading one entery about a spring for a Lewis gun followed by an item of clothing. Note its the Artillery Library not the AEC library.

regards

John

[FROGSMILE]

Grumpy

If you contact the librarian at the Royal School of Artillery at Larkhill they may be able to help. When I was at the REME Wksp there in 87 they had a complete set from pre war to the mid 1920's. If I recall correctly they were not in any specific order I remember reading one entery about a spring for a Lewis gun followed by an item of clothing. Note its the Artillery Library not the AEC library.

regards

John

Yes, I recall seeing those too and can corroborate that they were not in any specific order by type, but mixed up and listed chronologically.

[Muerrisch]

Thank you both, will follow up.

[themonsstar]

I've been looking at Dress Regs for the following dates:

1857

1874

1883

1894

1904

1911

1934

1969

David I suspect it's down to, what is the definition of a badge in Dress Reg's from 1857 it relates to the Chako plate "eg" chako-plate guilt star & crown,with motto according to seal pattern.

The same source when it comes to the Foot Guards: Plate a round clasp, gilt, with the regimental badge on the centre piece,and the title of the Regiment on the outer circle.

Infantry of the line:

Plate a round clasp, gilt, having on the centre piece the number of the Regiment,surmounted by a crown both in silver and on the outer circle the regimental title in silver letters.

1874 is basically the same as the 1854 Dress Regs, with its wording.

1883 it is called the helmet plate. The word badges is relating to the collar badges.

1894 same as the 1883 Dress Regs

It's the 1904 Dress Regs where it's called badges for head dress.

1911 same as 1904.

The Dress Regs for 1904 & 1911 both have glossy prints, it's the 1904 which as all British Army badges printed in it.

The 1934 reverts back to a typed description of the badge with no pictures.

The 1969 dress regs is covered in five different pamphlets some have glossy black and white pictures:

No 1 General Instructions.

No 2 Household Division.

No 3 Royal Armoured Corps.

No 4 Royal Artillery,Corps & Departments.

No 5 Infantry of the line.

I would also look out Kings and Queens Regulations and Orders for the Army,General Orders, Army Circulars, Army Orders,Army Council Instructions,Defence Counsel Instructions, Routine General Instructions,Divisional and Brigade Orders.

[Joe Sweeney]

Grumpy,

There were multiple systems in the War Office accounting for patterns--Badges usually did not go through the List of Changes in the time period you want but instead went through the RACD Clothing Ledgers/Registry of Changes (which you are familiar with).

Below is a synopsis of how this worked around the Great War. This is the ideal and there are lots of exceptions particularly with active service. As for loacation of records the RACD records are only in one place Kew (the records from 1894 to 1927 my house too). I depend on some helpful folks for LoC access and I have records coming out of Australia and the Canadian Archives.

All matters that concern us were handled by the Department of the Quartermaster-General, whos Director was Major General (later Lieutenant General) Sir J. S. Cowans. The Department of the Finance Members Director of Army Contracts performed the actual contracting work. Underneath the Department of the Quartermaster-General was the Directorate of Equipment and Ordnance Stores whose Director for most of the war was Major General Sir John Steevens. This Directorate contained the real machinery for supply of the Army.

The Directorate of Equipment and Ordnance Stores (D.E.O.S) was further broken down into branches with the main branches being the Quartermaster General (Q.M.G.) 7and Q.M.G. 9. The Q.M.G. 7 branchs main concern dealt with clothing and necessaries. The Q.M.G.9 branchs main concern was with stores and was alternately known as A.Q.M.G Stores.

With-in the Q.M.G. 7 branch the work of provision, storage and supply was the responsibility of the Chief Ordnance Officer Royal Army Clothing Department whose central depot was at Pimlico. The items this department was responsible for are found in a publication called the "Priced Vocabulary of Clothing and Necessaries (including Materials)". Pattern introductions and changes were tracked and recorded in the Royal Army Clothing Department clothing ledgers or Registry of Changes. Clothing ledger is a bit of a misnomer as it covered more than clothing. Procurement was funded through Vote 7 of Parliaments annual budget estimates.

This department had the responsibility for the approval, recording, manufacture and pattern control of all articles of Army clothing found in the previously mentioned Priced Vocabulary of Clothing and Necessaries. In the period of the 1880s till the after the Great War patterns were recorded in continuos numeric series. To further designate pattern the year of approval was included in the designation. So a pattern would be designated by the number code such as 5081/1901 or 6714/1907. Until, approximately 1909 changes or modifications to existing patterns were accounted for by a letter designation to the pattern number and a change in the year designation. For a few small items this method was maintained until around 1914 and for an even fewer number of items into the Great War. So pattern 5088/1901 was modified in series by patterns 5088a/1906, 5088b/1908, then updated to 7113/1910. The scope of the changes could range from fairly significant to mundane instructions on production techniques. This system was maintained until mid summer 1918 when a new series starting at 3000/1918 was begun in parallel with the existing numeric series. This 3000 series specifically refers to patterns approved through committee.

These patterns would be sealed (approved), declared standard and recorded in the Registry of Changes. There was also a distinct difference between when an item was approved and introduction into service. Items recorded in the Registry of Changes were approved, and the approval authority is usually recorded. If an item was major then its introduction was usually through an Army Order, e.g. most articles of Service Dress were approved in 1901, however the category of dress known as Service Dress was not introduced until January 1902 with Army Order 10. Army Order 10 actually approved no articles of clothing it only described articles already approved and being manufactured.

Articles of approved pattern could come from a variety of sources. Patterns could be sealed against an article designed by the Royal Army Clothing Department, a specific article available from a specific manufacturer, or a specific article that might have a variety of acceptable types. For the most part each standard pattern would have a corresponding specification that would give instructions on manufacture, inspection and delivery. Articles of the standard pattern would be deposited in the pattern room at the Royal Army Clothing Departments Headquarters in London. The standard patterns governed conformity of the pattern. When a uniform was adopted by the Royal Army Clothing Department, or a change to that pattern was made, specially made up garments or articles with a Royal Army Clothing Department seal attached would be issued to all manufacturers and units (for Infantry, a Battalion) in the British army. This special standard garment would govern procurement, manufacture, and issue. Its a common practice to assign model or pattern designations to the various changes in patterns of uniforms, however these designations are, for the most part, artificially applied by later generations to correspond to years of change or introduction and not always applied correctly. To the soldier or Royal Army Clothing Department these model numbers would be meaningless, in fact not exist. To them it was simply the Service Dress jacket or officially Jacket, Service Dress.

The Q.M.G. 9 Branch (stores) undertook the procurement of materiel entitled stores. The History of the Army Ordnance Services states, it had to provide through the Director of Army Contracts, all non technical stores whose purchase fell within the province of the Quartermaster General, and to deal with questions of their pattern and inspection, and to supervise arrangements for the storage and supply to the army of every species of equipment whether technical or non-technical. The main Ordnance depot was at Woolwich with small arms under the Chief Ordnance Officer at Weedon. The items this department was responsible for are found in a publication called the "Priced Vocabulary of Stores used in His Majesty's Service. Land Service Stores, and Stores Common to Land and Naval Services". Pattern changes were tracked and recorded in the "List of Changes in War Materiel and of Patterns of Military Stores". Procurement was funded through Votes 8 and 9 of Parliaments annual budget estimates.

This department had the responsibility for the approval, recording, manufacture and pattern control of all articles of stores found in the previously mentioned "Priced Vocabulary of Stores used in His Majesty's Service. Land Service Stores, and Stores Common to Land and Naval Services. Patterns were recorded in continuous numeric series starting at 1 in May of 1860 and recorded in what would eventually be known as the "List of Changes in War Materiel and of Patterns of Military Stores". These lists were issued in Army Circulars published on the first day of each month. There was also a distinct difference between approval and introduction of an item of stores. The approval date was that recorded on the specific List of Changes paragraph and there could be more than one date. The date of introduction would be the month the List of Changes paragraph was published in the Army Circular e.g. LoC §14288 Web equipment, pattern 1908 was approved on 31 January 1908 but was not introduced into service until published in the Army Circular released in October 1908. This system was far more formal than that used by the Royal Army Clothing Department.

When an item was published in the list it would usually contain a statement to the effect: A pattern has been sealed to govern manufacture or A pattern has been sealed to govern supplies. When the term manufacture is used it can infers production at an Ordnance Factory or when supplies is used instead to mean an outside contracted source. This is truer before the war. However, the meaning needs to be interpreted differently for wartime changes. The inference of Ordnance Factory production for articles sealed with to govern manufacture is too narrow. It would better be interpreted as an item either produced or designed by an Ordnance Factory or other government organization. Many items approved during the war with the instructions to govern manufacture were never manufactured in an Ordnance Factory however the source of the design may have come from one. To govern supplies would better be interpreted as an item produced and designed by a non-government source.

Unlike articles approved by the Royal Army Clothing Department articles approved through Q.M.G.9 could and would have pattern designations usually corresponding to year of introduction or mark numbers, e.g. Pattern 08 Web equipment, Mk V Ground Sheet, etc. Articles of approved pattern could come from a variety of sources.

Joe Sweeney

[Joe Sweeney]

I should also add that there were other organizations in the British Gov't that also procured equipment etc for the Army. RAMC kept there own pattern books and the biggest org was the Minitsry of Munitions particularly the Trench warfare department. The Trench Warfare Department was able to develop and get items out faster than the old WO machinery so it was very common that items such as special clothing (helmets etc) or Gas appliances would be developed, manufactured and in the field long before being recorded by the RACD or "Stores".

Case being the Helmet which was developed under the Trench Warfare Department in 1915. They kept control of production and patterns until 1917 when it was transferred to the RACD (Pattern sealed in the RACD ledgers) and then turned over to "Stores" in 1919 (If I remember correctly) and then approved in the LoC.

Joe Sweeney

[Muerrisch]

Thank you all.

As Joe knows, I have crawled all over the RACD ledgers and photographed huge chunks. Very rarely is there a rubbing or a sketch of a badge, only dates, serials, annotations as to new or replacement or obsolescent, materials, and uses to which put.

I have a complete relevant run of QVR and KR.

likewise

PVCNs

Clothing Regs

and extracts AOs and ACIs.

NONE of the above would enable me [or anyone else] to say of a badge "this was definitely the 1914-1919 SD version". [or the converse]

Survivals on uniform are in colour but may be demi-official or private purchase.

Photographs are never in colour.

Only the sealed patterns will, I think, tell me what I want to know. They are variously destroyed, in private hands, in the none-too-tender embrace of the NAM "yes we have lots, they are not indexed or photographed, and not kept on site and of course you cannot see them, after all you are only the author of the standard textbook and a paid up UK taxpayer [and ex-MoD 41 years]". I even offered to catalogue them myself, in return for travel expenses.

IWM have some, and I have an appointment to view.

We shall see.

I did so hope LoCs might fill the gap!

[Joe Sweeney]

Grumpy,

The LoC although better descriptive and actually published/typed don't really cover badges.

If you can get your hands an actual tagged sealed pattern this would be best, it also makes the short description of changes found in registies make more sense.

Good luck with the NAM.

Joe

[Muerrisch]

Joe, many thanks for your generous mentoring!

[badjez]

Gentlemen,

I've just come across this thread, accidentally, and very late.

The Royal Armouries at Leeds have a very comprehensive List of Changes catalogue, which is available to view & photograph, by appointment, free of charge. I've only used them for insignia post 1945 to 1960 and found them to be useful.

The one document Ive yet to find is the 'List of Minor Changes' which supposedly did publish the changes to insignia. Whilst referred to in the LoC itself, no-one seems to have a copy.

Stephen.