Applications to M.O.D.

[Guest ljcole]

My grandfather enlisted in the army in 1904 and was called up from reserve in 1914. In 1919 he did not demobilise but transferred to the RAF. He was transferred to the RAF reserve in 1923 before final discharge in 1931.

His RAF service record survives but I have been unable to locate his army sevice record (no trace at PRO). I understand that this record would have followed him and should now survive with the MOD with his RAF records.

Has anyone applied for army records from the MOD in these circumstances? I am concerned by reports of poor results when applying to MOD. What of the 70 year rule I have heard about? Do the MOD hand over records annually to the PRO? My grandfathers records are over 70 years old now - is it worth waiting?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Laurence

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

Lance - when your grandfather transferred to the RAF his Army service records "should" have gone with him - though there are exceptions. When you say that his RAF record survives I presume (?) that you mean that it is in either AIR76 or AIR79 at PRO and his RAF service number was lower than 329000 - if that is correct then it's unlikely* that the MoD will have anything at all.

If he left the Army in 1919, and his papers didnt follow him to the RAF, then they would be at PRO - if they had survived.

*There is always a chance that the fairly late discharge from RAF Reserve (1931) could mean that MoD hold papers going beyond the AIR76 / AIR79 records. I would guess that the chance is fairly remote, but maybe you just have to bite the bullet and pay the fee to MoD (RAF) records branch and see what happens.

regards - Tom

[Guest ljcole]

Tom

Thanks for your advice.

Luckily my grandfather kept his RAF service & discharge papers - his RAF number was 336837. No trace of his army records in WO363 or WO364.

Do you have any information about the 70 year rule? Is it just an administrative consideration for the MOD to hang on to these records beyond 70 years?

I will indeed bite the bullet - even if they have nothing I can at least stop wondering.

Laurence

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

Laurence - on the face of it your grandfather's service number is maybe a good omen because it is higher than the highest numbered file series which was released to PRO - but that leaves me a bit confused as to how you could say that his RAF record survived - presumably you have already applied to RAF Innsworth and had a transcript from them, rather than a PRO AIR76 / 79 record as I had assumed ?

If the Army record is not in WO363 / 364 then you probably have a problem, because you "have" to assume that the Army record went to the Air Ministry, and if you have already applied to Innsworth and that did not reveal any army service details, then either the army papers have been destroyed at some stage (by the Air Ministry) or else Innsworth have not given you a complete report.

There is no point applying to MoD for pre-1922 army papers because they will just refer you back to WO363 / 364, over which they have no control. MoD are only of use to you if there was army service post 1921 - or if Innsworth have fouled-up, as above.

The 70 year rule isnt relevant because you would make a next-of-kin application, and in any case MoD are a law unto themselves in these matters - current (mainly unsupported !) rumours ref release of post 1921 service records to the public domain is "not in our lifetime".

Regards - Tom

[Terry_Reeves]

The rules governing the release of documents have never made any real sense to me.

Some years ago I was presented with a box of documents at the PRO that had a red sticker attached which prohibited the release of them before 1965 - a 50 year restriction having been applied. Another sticker appeared along side indicating that this period had been extended to 1975. Expecting to find something really interesting I combed the files in some detail, but to no avail. To rub salt into the wound, the majority of the information contained therein had already been published in a book in 1936 which I had on my bookshelf.

Terry Reeves

[Guest ljcole]

Tom

My grandfather kept his discharge papers and they came to me via my father.

What records are at RAF Innsworth? I had assumed I would be applying to the MOD. Please tell me more.

Laurence

[john w.]

Laurence

RAF service personnel, including casualties, service records etc..

If you write to RAF INNSWORTH, PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT AGENCY, GLOUCS GL3 1 EZ Tel: 01452 712612 you may have some luck, but it seemjs that recently you may have to pay a fee to gain the info u need.. I was quoted £25 to get my mum's service record.

John