dutchbarge Posted 13 February , 2011 Share Posted 13 February , 2011 Hello, Can anyone tell me what type of rifle these troops are carrying? These are state-side (San Francisco) U.S. troops. The photograph is dated Sept 1918. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 13 February , 2011 Share Posted 13 February , 2011 Russian M91 Mosin Nagant (probably US made for Russian contact by Remington (I think). khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 13 February , 2011 Share Posted 13 February , 2011 Khaki is right, they're Mosin-Nagants, which became a secondary U.S. weapon after the Russian Revolution when Britain stopped its funding of the Remington and Edison contracts to make them for Tsarist Russia. Those troops may have been about to depart for the U.S. intervention in Vladivistok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 13 February , 2011 Share Posted 13 February , 2011 Like this: This one is a US (Westinghouse) made example. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchbarge Posted 14 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2011 Thanks Fellows.......the following photograph is from the same panoramic photograph as the one above. The caption reads "Co. D, 23rd Bn, Presidio San Francisco, Sept 2 1918". I'm trying to figure out which unit this represents. The 363rd Infantry Regiment, originally a California National Guard Regiment, folded into the National Army, was 'San Francisco's Own" but was raised at Fort Lewis, WA. While they demobbed at the Presidio this wasn't unitl 1919. The 30th Infantry Regiment was stationed at the Presidio prior to and after WW1 so it might be this organization. Of course, as this caption states "23rd Bn. " I'm thinking this was probably one of the depot training organizations. Any ideas? Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchbarge Posted 14 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2011 Here's the corner of the panoramic photo with the photographer's name. The circle with the 329 over an I, doesn't match any Presidio organizations that I can think of. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 14 February , 2011 Share Posted 14 February , 2011 Just a guess, but the number within the circle may represent a 'negative' record number for the photographers future sales/orders. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchbarge Posted 14 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2011 Just a guess, but the number within the circle may represent a 'negative' record number for the photographers future sales/orders. khaki The 8th Division, whose war-time cantonment was just a few miles south of San Francisco (in Menlo Park), sent elements of two of its infantry regiments, the 12th and 13th, to Siberia. However, I'm fairly certain that despite the rifles (used by many state-side training units) these troops were not Siberia bound and were infact stationed at the Presidio, SF. Other than that......? It is a great pity that unlike the UK, the USA has no meaningful facility for researching members of the AEF. No LG or NA. Most US gov't held (NARA) AEF personnel records were destroyed in the 70s and those that remain cannot be accessed without a serviceman's serial number, something most researchers don't have and a matter of procedure that only filling out an application for NOK records and a 6 month wait reveals to the uninitiated researcher. (note: when one goes to the NA site, there is a special section for members of congress only, who presumeably get better service than the rest of us). What little information is out there regarding the AEF personnel is largely patched together from published unit histories, state archives, newspaper articles, etc., such information, including muster rolls, being shared amongst enthusiasts and militaria collectors. Despite its enormous contribution to Allied victory in the Great War, the USA just isn't much interested in remembering. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Story Posted 14 July , 2011 Share Posted 14 July , 2011 I suspect that might be a California Home Guard unit - look at the age and build of the guys in the photo. That would also explain why they were armed with Mosin rifles. http://www.militarymuseum.org/SMR%20History.html Although the San Francisco units were armed with Springfield Trapdoor and Mauser rifles, according to this - http://www.militarymuseum.org/SanFranciscoHG.html A February 5, 1918 Military Bureau report lists California as needing 3,600 arms . The offical War Department records state, "The Governor and Adjutant General headed a State Defense Guard of men 30-50 years of age. Originally ten companies were authorized. Later there were about 100. They had duties of a constabulary and such other duties as the governor might direct, but could not be used in industrial disputes. They were self-armed or armed by local authorities". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeS0000 Posted 15 July , 2011 Share Posted 15 July , 2011 Just an fyi, but here is a US marked MN91one that was auctioned off recently.... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239009262 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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