Troops in the Middle East

[JS2241]

My Grandfather, also John Stewart, served as a private with the 6th Battalion, Highland Light Infantry as part of the 52nd Lowland Division in Gallipoli, Sinai, Gaza, Palestine and then the Western Front from April 1918 till the end of the War.

He had a son born in May 1917, and assuming the virtuousness of my Grandmother (she was a Salvation Army lass !), he must have been home around August 1916. Were troops in the Gallipoli/Middle East campaign given home leave ?

His war service documents are unavailable, as many were destroyed during WW2. Any advice would be appreciated.

John Stewart

[ander11]

Hello John, have you tried the LLT for information

http://www.1914-1918.net/hli.htm

http://www.1914-1918.net/52div.htm

There should be some information in those Links

Best regards

Ian

[liliasodell]

Hello John

It might be worth trying to get hold of the Battalion War Diaries. Some Regimental websites have them on (though not too many), otherwise they'll probably be at the National Archives. If you can find the main regimental website and make contact, they're always very helpful. If you can't get to the NA yourself, it may be possible to order copies through their website, or failing this there are researchers out there who'll get them for you (best priced I've found actually advertise Regimental War Diaries on ... dare I say it ... ebay).

There'are quite a few John Stewart's in the Highland Light Infantry listed in the medal rolls cards, so I can't tell which might be yours without more information - but many of these cards record the date the soldier was first sent into action - which could be helpful?

Best of luck

Eljo.

[River97]

I have seen records of soldiers from the 60th London Division receive home leave from Palestine, passing through Italy on the way. These were all from 1918. Hadn't seen anything from 1916, but you never know. John may have returned home to recuperate for some reason.

Cheers Andy.

[kenf48]

On the Western Front home leave was in the gift of the CO, often witheld as a punishment or offered as a reward. It's granting depended on the Battalion strength, or deployment.

It was usually for a maximum of seven days and began when the soldier left his Unit and started to make his own way home. So to get from say Rouen to Glasgow and back was, to say the least difficult. By 1917 and a conscript Army it had become more regularised but was still difficult, and often not wanted.

Home Leave from the Middle East was, therefore, a virtual impossibility. As a generalisation sick and wounded soldiers from Gallipolli and Palestine were sent to hospital in Cairo and Alexandria, from Salonika to Malta and those in Mesopatamia sent to India. If they did not heal they were sent to hospital in the UK, where they would go through the process of treatment and either discharge or returned to Depot for reassignment.

Not quite as unusual but probably rare would be the men who landed at Gallipolli in 1915 and then soldiered through the campaign. I've had a quick look at the service records and found, for example a man who enlisted in August 1915 and went out to Egypt in October 1916, wounded twice his service followed that outlined in your first post from October 1916. You haven't told us why you think he was with the Battalion for the whole time of his service, but if he was in the same draft as the man above then his wife's virtue is unimpeachable, as they were usually given leave before going overseas.

If you have a Regimental Number we could probably identify when he went overseas from his mic, and have a look at similar numbers.

Ken

[David Porter]

This is my guess at the sequence of events.

If your grandfather had enlisted in the TF in 1911 his four year engagement would expire in 1915. However at the outbreak of war they added a year so there wasn't a mass exodus. This brought him up to inclusion in the Military Service Act in 1916 and at the termination of his engagement he would be retained. He would be entitled to a bounty and given one months furlough. I have found people allowed home from the Middle East soon after the Military Service Act was enforced but later it was more likely to be tagged on at the end of the service period. It is also possible that your grandfather enlisted before 1911 and added to his service a year at a time but it would have been due to expire in 1915 and then extended under the conditions above.

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Yes concidering that the 52nd Div was on operations in late 1916 (at Romani) its doughtfull he was allowed home at the time?

Since the lady was a salvo was she also in Egypt?

Australia had a number of ladies with there Canteens there, why not Britian?

S.B

[ddycher]

I would agree with David - the most likely hypothesis is that he was time expired. Often a good quick check is to see if his MIC or NA history shows more than one regt number pre the 1917 6 digit renumbering of the TF.

Regards

Dave

[kenf48]

I would agree with David - the most likely hypothesis is that he was time expired. Often a good quick check is to see if his MIC or NA history shows more than one regt number pre the 1917 6 digit renumbering of the TF.

Regards

Dave

Out of curiosity where is the evidence to support he was a pre-war member of the TF?

On the other hand the Service Records and Regimental History( as on the LLT) show a surge of recruitment into the 3/6th in 1915, most of whom then went to the 1/6th or 2/6th (presumably as replacements for losses at Gallipolli). The Regimental numbers for this group tend to be 3*** series.

It would help enormously if the OP could give us a regimental Number.

Ken

[centurion]

Out of curiosity where is the evidence to support he was a pre-war member of the TF?

If he was then his MIC would presumably show an appropriate medal for 1914/15

[kenf48]

If he was then his MIC would presumably show an appropriate medal for 1914/15

That's what I thought.

Unfortunately there are 47 mics for John Stewart in the Highland Light Infantry only three went to Gallipolli and of those only one was from the 1/6th, his number was Pte 2859/24020 1/6th.

( For completeness the others were C/Sgt 558 1/5th Pte 2718/280764 7th)

assuming it is 2859 then 2811 was attested and embodied on the 7th September 1914, which does not support the notion of a pre war TF soldier enlisting in 1911.

I was wondering if the 'me too' poster had some insight because until we have a regimental number, it seems to me any hypothesis, including mum serving tea in Cairo, her child sired by another father, time served or not going overseas until later seems as likely as any other.

Ken

[ddycher]

Ken

Dont have your expertise with respect to the HLI and have no sense of the number with respect to attestation date in this regiment but if it helps from my own studies I show men leaving Egypt as time-expired or attaining the age limit and returning to the UK as late as April 1917. This from the Devons experiences in 1916 and 1917. There are comparable ref's in the Manchester's TF histories. Hence my view posted below.

After this, in my experiences todate, age limit men were typically retained in the garrison battalions. Time expired obviously no longer being relevent.

I have also noted that time expired men re-enlisting are often shown on more that one MIC or only under the last no they had before the TF renumbering. This makes tracking more difficult.

I also have some men returning from Egypt in the summer of 1916 during the unit disbandment and restructuring at that time but as you say any potential rational as feasible as any other without more definitive data.

Regards

Dave