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JoeBhoy
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Could anyone shed any light on my wifes G Grandfather Thomas Burns. Here is what I know - Family story is that he was a Regular Soldier , born in Keighley West Yorkshire 1878, married 1910, had a Daughter 1911, and died 1939. He lived in Keighley West Yorkshire at the outbreak of WW1, captured and then released after the war. We have no photos or anything. I found a T Burns on the "National Archives" prisoners site & downloaded it -then promptly lost it, however I fortunately wrote the info from the card down -

Thos Burns 2 Kings Own Royal Lancashire Regt. No 1601, 9 May 1915. WO161/98/556.

Would the No 1601 be his actual Army number? I opresume it's saying he was captured 9 May 1915, but I've no idea where or what was going on. Could anyone point me in the right direction to find out more about Thomas - his capture, history before WW1 poss Boer War or India?? Any chance there may be a record or photo anywhere? Any help would be greatly appreciated as we only have family story and this fleeting record (if I can find it again as it's not easy using the Archives site - I've tried again and can't find the original to buy again).

Thanks

Seoamh

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  • 2 weeks later...

His MIC says he disembarked in France 12 Sep 1914

Yes, 1601 is his service no in K O R Lancs Regt.

The MIC says he had a SWB too, for wounds

I am not entirely convinced that you have the right Thomas Burns as this site indicates an enlistment date of 1886which would be too early for your man.

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His MIC says he disembarked in France 12 Sep 1914

Yes, 1601 is his service no in K O R Lancs Regt.

The MIC says he had a SWB too, for wounds

I am not entirely convinced that you have the right Thomas Burns as this site indicates an enlistment date of 1886which would be too early for your man.

If he has a SWB for wound it would indicate either that this Thomas Burns was not captured or he was captured but was repatriated because of wounds and then discharged because of same.

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1601 Thomas Burns is in WO 161/98/556 (yours for £3.50) which is a POW debrief on 9 May 1915 and may explain his SWB

However I think that the OP has "stumbled" upon "a" Thomas Burns in TNA, but it is not necessarily "his" Thomas Burns. TNA entry is for a Thomas Burns who was a POW, but there are a great many MICs for men called Thomas Burns, and given his apparent date of enlistment, I feel that the OP should try other men of that name, unless he knows that his Thomas Burns was definitely in that regiment

There are 344 MICs for Thomas Burns of one sort or another.

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Corisande & Centurion

Thank you so much for taking the time & effort to research this for us. I seem to be back at square one, if I understand it - this T Burns(1601) would have enlisted around 1886 much too early to be our Thomas as our Thomas would have been about 8-10 years old at that time. I researched the TNA for a POW and I think that was the only T Burns that it returned who was a POW so I thought I had our man. i will try the TNA POW site again - but I did not do so well when I tried a second time previously, it's not easy to use.

I really have nothing else to go on other than the family story posted originally, the family have nothing concrete to go on. If I only find the same T Burns on the TNA POW list - I have a dilemma. I'm thinking that if the records are correct for POW's? then our family story is wrong, I don't relish the thought or cost of trolling through 344 records at £3.50 each with so little to corroberate any information that the cards provide. However thanks very much again guys - I will keep you posted if I turn up anyhthing further -if you think of anything that may help in any small way I would appreciate it.

Cheers

Seosamh

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Seosamh

Two things ... first, the WO161 POW records represent only a tiny sample of British POWs so do not be concerned that he is not there.

Second, I have just checked the entry in WO161 and Pte 1601 appears to be a different man. He came from Harvey Street, Byker, Newcastle-on-Tyne.

Just out of interest a service record of a Thomas Burns from Keighley has survived. He enlisted in April 1910, becoming Pte 1362 of the 6th West Riding Regiment (Territorial). He was aged 18.On 7 November 1910 he left, having re-enlisted into the Special Reserve - and no record of what happened after that, at least that I could spot in a quick search. His mother was a Mrs E Burns of 55 Bradford Road. Any relation?

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That was well spotted Chris

Armed with that I found that man's service record on Ancestry, so the OP can find it there

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Could anyone shed any light on my wifes G Grandfather Thomas Burns. Here is what I know - Family story is that he was a Regular Soldier , born in Keighley West Yorkshire 1878, married 1910, had a Daughter 1911, and died 1939. He lived in Keighley West Yorkshire at the outbreak of WW1, captured and then released after the war. We have no photos or anything. I found a T Burns on the "National Archives" prisoners site & downloaded it -then promptly lost it, however I fortunately wrote the info from the card down -

Thos Burns 2 Kings Own Royal Lancashire Regt. No 1601, 9 May 1915. WO161/98/556.

Would the No 1601 be his actual Army number? I opresume it's saying he was captured 9 May 1915, but I've no idea where or what was going on. Could anyone point me in the right direction to find out more about Thomas - his capture, history before WW1 poss Boer War or India?? Any chance there may be a record or photo anywhere? Any help would be greatly appreciated as we only have family story and this fleeting record (if I can find it again as it's not easy using the Archives site - I've tried again and can't find the original to buy again).

Thanks

Seoamh

Hi Seomah

On the Keighley enlistments for October 1915 there is a Thomas Burn 10, Aireworth St.., 1st West Riding. Hope this helps DaveC

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Chris_ Baker

Thank you for checking and conforming that 1601 is not our Thomas. The same unfortunately goeas for the other Thomas 1362 - our Thomas's Mother was Ann and his Father was Michael, I thought you had him there for a minute but the age & Mothers name make it very unlikely.

corisande

Thanks for cheking the ancestry but, as above it's not him unfortunately, I think that by 1910 our Thomas would be about 32 ish.

DaveC

That is at least another possible. Ineterstingly I have checked the Census (censi?) for Keighley from 1881 and Thomas is there aged 2, 1891 he's there aged 13, but I can find no trace of him on the 1901 in either England, Wales or Scotland - strange. I now doubt the "regular soldier" family lore as I have his marriage cert from 25 June 1910 and it gives his occupation as "labourer in foundry".

Thanks so much again everyone - I'll keep you posted.

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