JoMH Posted 25 January , 2011 Share Posted 25 January , 2011 A quick question. Were M.C.s normally inscribed with the name/service number of the recipients? If so, where on the medal would the inscription be found? Thanks for any illumination on this. Joanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 25 January , 2011 Share Posted 25 January , 2011 No, they were awarded blank. The privately engraved inscription on some MCs is not a guarantee of its authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QSAMIKE Posted 25 January , 2011 Share Posted 25 January , 2011 Hello Joanna...... It depends on when the MC was issued...... WW1 or WW2....... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMH Posted 25 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2011 Quick reply! Thanks Phil, that clears it up for me. Seems strange though, that such an important award should not be personalized. Any ideas as to why? Joanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMH Posted 25 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2011 Hello Mike, The one in question was WW1. Was the policy changed by the time WW2 came along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmarchand Posted 25 January , 2011 Share Posted 25 January , 2011 the only difference between WW I & II MC's in terms of engraving is that in WW II the year of issue was engraved (beginning in the late 1930's I believe - but can't recall exctly when), in WW I they were not. No other details were officially engraved or stamped onto MC's - or other officers awards(excepting the VC). Various reasons for this, pricipally seems that class issues were a conceren. Officers were honourable and wouldn't wear something they were not entitled to - weras the ranks were always suspect. However, ofeten with casualties it was common for private details t be engraved on officers gallatry medals, teh MC has a nice blank back for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 25 January , 2011 Share Posted 25 January , 2011 A nice example of the privately engraved M.C being that of Wilfred Owen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 25 January , 2011 Share Posted 25 January , 2011 However, ofeten with casualties it was common for private details t be engraved on officers gallatry medals, teh MC has a nice blank back for that. Yes, so a missing MC can always be replaced by some other blank MC or by one that`s been engraved to look the part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMH Posted 25 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2011 "Yes, so a missing MC can always be replaced by some other blank MC" I presume this is what has happened in the case in question. Many thanks for all the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMH Posted 26 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2011 Picking up on Scott's point in Post # 6: No other details were officially engraved or stamped onto MC's - or other officers awards(excepting the VC). Forgive my ignorance, but are you saying that MCs were only awarded to officers - officially? Or that they tended to be mostly awarded to officers under the prevailing class system? One question always leads to another... Thanks, Joanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 26 January , 2011 Share Posted 26 January , 2011 The MC was initially instituted for officers below field rank (Captain, Lieutenant, Second Lieutenant) and warrant officers of the Army, however provision was made so that equivalent ranks of the Royal Navy could be awarded the MC when their act of gallantry was performed on land. Likewise this applied to the RAF too when that service came into being. The MC was also awarded for aerial operations prior to the institution of the Distinguished Flying Cross. The MC, as has been said above was issued unnamed and undated during the Great War and the Medals Yearbook normally shows an image of an unnamed cross dated 1938 to illustrate the period of time when the dates were first used. Following the 1993 Operational Awards Review, all the medals to Other Ranks were replaced by their 'Officer' equivalent and so now all ranks are eligible for the MC, provided their act of gallantry is performed on land. The awards are all officially named now too with the exception of the Air Force Cross when awarded for Meritorious Service. As a general rule a Military Cross for the Great War will be blank on the reverse side unless unofficially engraved privately. Again as has been said, anyone can engrave anything on a medal, so the presence of an inscription is not proof of authenticity on its own. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMH Posted 26 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2011 Thanks Nigel for that clarification. I imagine the MC designated to the person in question will have been taken to make up another's medal group long ago - possibly more than once! Joanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 26 January , 2011 Share Posted 26 January , 2011 I`m not quite sure what we`re talking about here, J. If an MC is blank, it may, or may not be the original. You`d have to decide whether you trusted its provenance. If it`s engraved to someone else, it may be genuinely his originally - or not! Once again, its provenance is up to your judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QSAMIKE Posted 26 January , 2011 Share Posted 26 January , 2011 I don't think that I can add much more to the explinations as shown above Joanna....... Would like to show this though...... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 26 January , 2011 Share Posted 26 January , 2011 That's a lovely, lovely thing! Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMH Posted 26 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2011 Sorry, Phil. Let me try to clarify. A group of medals (inscribed) were auctioned very recently. They included 1914-15 Star, British WW1 Victory Medal, British War Medal and bar/pin of miniatures of these, including miniature M.C. The actual M.C. medal was not part of the lot. These medals are now up for auction again, and now include an M.C. I wanted to clarify whether this M.C. could possibly be the actual one awarded, which is why I asked if they were normally inscribed. I imagine that the M.C. in the current auction could have been awarded to anyone. The group of medals was originally lost some time around 1940, and I suppose that the M.C. might possibly have been used to make up another group somewhere along the way. That is indeed a very elegant inscription, Mike. Joanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 26 January , 2011 Share Posted 26 January , 2011 It is not uncommon for a collector or dealer to take an MC group containing a privately engraved MC and break it up into two parts: the first part being an unnamed MC with the pair or trio that was in the original group and the second part being the named MC and any accompanying paper work. Fifteen or so years ago at an OMSA convention in Houston I purchased a very nicely engraved MC in its case with a huge amount of paperwork and photos from a well-known Canadian dealer. Eight years later I was lucky enough to purchase his World War BWM and VM with an unnamed MC off of the list of a UK dealer. The engraved MC, BWM and VM and the paperwork has now been reunited. In the last few years I have noticed a number of MC groups on dealers' lists that contain a named WWI MC with either the BWM or VM unnamed and when I checked my database I found that the named VM or BWM with the group was sold previously as a single. I assume that some unethical person has taken the named BWM or VM and added an unnamed VM or BWM and a recently engraved MC to try to give the indication that the group is legitimate. Regards, Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravrick Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 Hi, I have this contemporary privatley engraved MC, I must admit that it adds that extra "something" to the medal.. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nthornton1979 Posted 3 February , 2011 Share Posted 3 February , 2011 That's a nice MC Rick ! Here's one of mine. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nthornton1979 Posted 3 February , 2011 Share Posted 3 February , 2011 One more. Awarded for a trench raid. He was bayoneted in the head but killed the German and continued leading the raid ! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 18 April , 2011 Share Posted 18 April , 2011 Love Named MCs when one sayes you can get them engraved in the style of the ERA ...well i dont think its that easy. i collect almost exclusively MC groups and have thought HMM would be nice to get one named for whatever reason example if i knew from research for example that this one was presented by the king and wanted it dated to appear as such and not to deceive, Try finding someone that can actually really do the job rare as hens teeth . Same as medals that are not named ,,,where are the medal jigs for getting them nameds must exist somewhere there is always chat about being named up to make up a group but i dont know of anyone in 25 plus years that really has the equipment to do the job properly...otherwise that unamed DCM WW2 could be worth a real lot more if it was that easy to just get it named to a good Citation Winner. Cheers Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACRAE Posted 18 April , 2011 Share Posted 18 April , 2011 I don't think that I can add much more to the explinations as shown above Joanna....... Would like to show this though...... Mike That is a fantastic engraved MC stunning very very very nice okay I have stoped grovelling Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 24 July , 2011 Share Posted 24 July , 2011 That MC named Moore is a real cracker looks great. A real enhancment to a MC group Thx for posting it Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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