Casualties 1914

[James Power]

I wonder if anyone can help me please. I am trying to find accurate (as accurate as possible...) figures for the total casualties for France, Britain and Germany as at the end of 1914 (and not the entire war as most often quoted).

Any help most welcome.

Many thanks

James

[dycer]

James,

Is it an academic,historical,numerical answer you seek?

Because my Uncle was a 1914 Soldier,but killed in 1915.

George

[kenf48]

These two threads may help - they discuss deaths not wounded,missing,pows who were casualties

the figure for deaths is Officers 1465 OR 25421 Total 26886

http://1914-1918.inv...1

http://1914-1918.inv...1

The Statistics of the great war referred to by Chris in one of the threads can be found in the virtual library section of the forum

Ken

EDIT Yes in light of Tom's post to clarify the figures above they are British and Commonwealth Army deaths only, thanks - again Tom!

[truthergw]

Are these totals to include all fronts? Army and Navy? If so, we may have problems. I think there may be problems defining a casualty. There is no easy way to draw a date or time line. It might be best if you were to define exactly what you are looking for. I have a few books which might help to find specific figures for Britain and Germany and rather less specific for France.

[James Power]

Thanks Tom and others

By casualties I mean those of ALL ranks killed, missing, wounded, and taken prisoner (as in usual definition) from 4 August to 31 December 1914. I would be most grateful if the figures could be specific to the Western Front if at all possible. As neither Canada, India, Australia or New Zealand had entered the theatre of war in France and Belgium I imagine it will be in the narrower sense of 'British' as of 1914 and therefore including the entire Ireland of Ireland/Eire.

I'm not seeking to get too bog down in some of the finer interpretations of the definition of 'casualty' as my interest is primarily to compare the losses suffered by France in the relatively short but hugely costly opening months of the Great war to those of Britain (and Germany if possible).

Thanks again for taking an interest in my quest. I recall reading the very figures I seek in a book I think somewhere in my teetering pile, but such is my memory that I can’t remember which book it was without wading through all again (which may be heading my way...)

[truthergw]

The Official History will allow as good an estimate as you are likely to get for BEF. P 469 Vol 2 of 1914, says 3627 Officers, 86237 men. Killed wounded and missing. Incidentally, Indian troops were already in F&F. The same section in the OH has a couple of pages on German casualties and the problems assiciated with them. If you look around the forum you will find that this is still a very hot potato. I think your local library will get the book for you if it doesn't have it on the shelf. A peep at the pages will show some of the problems. When I get a chance, I'll try to see what I have in the German pile.

[James Power]

Thanks Tom, that's a great help. That's the most important figure I was looking for.

I'm most grateful to you for taking the time to assist.

Best wishes

James

[phil andrade]

James,

German casualties 1914, Western Front only source Reichsarchiv

August to November..... Killed : 116,750 ; Missing : 107,640 ; Wounded : 453,050. Total: 677,440

Dec '14 to Jan '15 .......Killed : 54,825: Missing : 11,100; Wounded : 104,100 . Total: 170,025

The missing herein would include a large number - perhaps more than half - who were dead, and wounded men would have died, too. Unfortunately, that source does not give separate figures for Dec 1914 and January 1915, but I would hazard a guess and say that the 1914 figure, based on the above source, would come to about 750,000 to 770,000, of whom about thirty per cent were dead.

Another source, the Sanitatsbericht - which is a medical history - gives a strikingly different figure :

Killed in action : 85,061 ; Missing : 126,450 ; Wounded : 431,726......Total 643,237

The figure for killed here is meticulously confined only to those confirmed killed on the field : a large portion of the missing were also killed, and, again, many of the wounded died from their wounds, too.....so the total number of deaths, implied in those statistics, might be well over double the eighty five thousand initially posted as killed.

I find the disparity between the two sources - each equally authoritative - to be bewildering.

French casualties have been variously estimated at from a low figure of two thirds of a million to a high of just under one million...again, a staggering variation, depending on who and how you count. The high figure probably includes the sick; the low figure probably excludes the lightly wounded : no disagreement about the total nuimber of deaths....about 300,000.

British casualties are not nearly so elusive. Medical History statistics are, IMHO, the best source :

Killed in action and died from wounds : 23,262; Wounded and survived : 55,689 ; Prisoners : 19,915....Total 98,866.

The Belgian casualties were apparently in excess of fifty thousand, of whom eight thousand were posted as killed, but, again, those posted as killed might equate to only half the total who actually died.

By the lowest estimate, then, a million and a half battle casualties. I would reckon on nearer two million. At least half a million killed or died from wounds, in five months : a bloodbath.

Phil (PJA)

[Ron Clifton]

Hello James

"Casualties and Medical Statistics", one of the volumes in the Official History Medical series, rather unhelpfully breaks down the figures by years ending 30 September, but does give a breakdown by theatre and arm of service. Here are the relevant figures for 1914 and 1915, from which you may be able to estimate the relevant totals to 31 Dec 1914:

Year ended 30 Sept 1914 France & Belgium

Officers All Arms 487

Other ranks Cavalry 174

Other ranks Artillery 303

Other ranks Engineers 32

Other ranks Infantry 5131

Other ranks M/Guns 0

Other ranks Tanks 0

Other ranks Others 23

Offs + ORs Totals 6150

Year ended 30 Sept 1915 France & Belgium

Officers All Arms 3816

Other ranks Cavalry 1470

Other ranks Artillery 1295

Other ranks Engineers 911

Other ranks Infantry 58526

Other ranks M/Guns 0

Other ranks Tanks 0

Other ranks Others 425

Offs + ORs Totals 66443

Ron

[phil andrade]

Those are just confirmed deaths, surely, Ron, and as such only a fraction of total casualties.

Phil (PJA)

[Ron Clifton]

Yes, Phil, you are right.

Sorry James. The figures for total casualties are as follows:

Year ended 30 Sept 1914 France & Belgium

Officers All Arms 1679

Other ranks Cavalry 1367

Other ranks Artillery 1646

Other ranks Engineers 264

Other ranks Infantry 24843

Other ranks M/Guns 0

Other ranks Tanks 0

Other ranks Others 640

Offs + ORs Totals 30439

Year ended 30 Sept 1915 France & Belgium

Officers All Arms 11278

Other ranks Cavalry 6885

Other ranks Artillery 5524

Other ranks Engineers 3802

Other ranks Infantry 259211

Other ranks M/Guns 0

Other ranks Tanks 0

Other ranks Others 1714

Offs + ORs Totals 288414

Ron

[phil andrade]

On reflection, if asked to give a summary of casualties on the Western Front for 1914, I would be tempted to give rounded estimates in this general order of magnitude....

Allied : One million, including about 850,000 French, 100,000 British and 50,000 Belgians. Of these, approximatley 300,000 were killed in action or died from wounds. This alludes to battle casualties only, and does not include deaths from disease or accident, or those evacuated sick.

By the same criteria as those above, German battle casualties were in the order of three quarters of a million, of whom perhaps 200,000 were killed in action or died from wounds.

Included in the Allied casualties are some 200,000 PoWs; the Germans probaly lost fewer than one third of that number.

The proportion of deaths was inordinately high for the French...in their catastrophic defeats and routs of August, they were often unable to recover their wounded from the field. They are said to have lost twenty seven thousand dead on August 22nd alone.

Phil (PJA)