What guns are these?

[Michael Pegum]

This is a photo of the Villa Trento, Dolegnano, near to Udine in north-east Italy. It was No. 1 Red Cross Hospital during the Great War. The photo may have been taken after the war was over, as I imagine guns would not have been parked so near to a hospital during the war.

The question is, can you identify the guns?

Michael

[Old Tom]

I'm fairly sure they are not British. Ordnance above recoil system, exposed lynch pins. Italian ? Someone will know!

Old Tom

[Rockdoc]

They look like the Krupp-designed M1906 3-in gun used by the Italian Army and shown on page 57 of Ian Hogg's Allied Artillery of World War One.

Keith

[Sue Light]

Villa Trento was evacuated/closed by the BRCS in October 1917 with the advance at Caporetto, so almost certainly put to different use after that date - it was opened by the BRCS to aid the Italian forces, and admitted almost exclusively Italian troops. Just to avoid any confusion, can I just mention that it was never No.1 British Red Cross Hospital (that was in France throughout the war) but was actually the base and hospital used by No.1 British Red Cross Motor Ambulance Unit, known as 'Unit 1'.

Sue

[Michael Pegum]

That's very helpful, Sue. I was quoting (perhaps, mis-quoting) from an Italian website (Villa Trento) which said that it was "la Prima unità della B.R.C.". Incidentally, the director was George Macaulay Trevelyan, the well-known historian.

It went on to say that it was the hospital described in Ernest Hemingway's 'Farewell to Arms', where he met a nurse, Agnes Conway, who told him some anecdotes which he incorporated in the book. They even have a group photograph which is said to include her.

Your information contradicts this, as Hemingway did not arrive in Italy until May, 1918. I had already suspected that the website was wrong, as I found that Agnes Conway was with the American Red Cross, not the British. By the way, for those who have read the book, this was not the Agnes with whom Hemingway fell in love, and who was the model for the heroine, Catherine Barkley. That was an American nurse, Agnes von Kurowski.

Michael

[Sue Light]

MIchael

I only wish my Italian was up to it! But the photo of the nursing group on there is clearly a British staff, and looking at the 'British Red Cross Register of Overseas Volunteers 1914-1918' there is an entry for a 'Bedelia Agnes Conway' who was sent to Italy as a Nursing Sister, so obviously that fits in well. My information came from the very large, and very over-titled book 'Reports by the Joint War Committee and the Joint War Finance Committee of the British Red Cross Society and the Order of St. John of Jerusalem in England on Voluntary Aid Rendered to the Sick and Wounded at Home and Abroad and to British Prisoners of War 1914-1919.' There are several pages on Unit 1 and the Villa Trento, but the 'end' is described:

When the great Austro-German attack on the Caporetto position opened in October, 1917, the motor ambulances of the Unit were divided between two localities, half being stationed at Gorizia, the remainder at Ravne...

... the Unit was forced to abandon its Hospital in the Villa Trento. No intimation of impending disaster reached the staff until 6 a.m. on October 26, when Dr. Brock received orders from the Direzione di Sanita to evacuate the hospital, and to hold himself in readiness to leave with the whole staff at the shortest notice. In the evening these instructions were countermanded; but on the 27th new orders were received from Colonel Morino, Director of the 2nd Army Sanita, to transfer the Hospital to Conegliano on the far side of the Tagliamento.

It continues to describe the evacuation and the later work of the Unit, but there is no suggestion that the BRCS ever returned to Villa Trento. So it does seem that all the staff, including the nursing staff left at that time. Many of the nurses had previously resided in Italy, or had Italian connections, so I wonder if Agnes Conway had joined up later with the American Red Cross, even though the British had left.

Sue

[Michael Pegum]

That description of the evacuation does sound quite like the episode in Hemingway's book.

The Agnes Conway I found was in 'The Story of the American Red Cross in Italy', by Charles M. Bakewell (New York, MacMillan, 1920). It lists Agnes Conway (no Bedelia) as a nurse at Oderzo, a town about 30km north of Venice. I suppose it might be the same Agnes Conway. If they met, it must have been in 1918, and she would have had to have transferred to the American Red Cross, for some reason.

If you still have access to the British book, Sue, could you see if there is any reference to a 'chauffeur' at Villa Trento, Edmund Meredith from Dublin? He went there in August, 1917, promptly went down with dysentery and died within a few days.

Michael

[Michael Pegum]

They look like the Krupp-designed M1906 3-in gun used by the Italian Army and shown on page 57 of Ian Hogg's Allied Artillery of World War One.

Keith

Many thanks! That's what I wanted to know.

Michael

[Sue Light]

Michael

There's no mention of Meredith in the text, but he does have an entry in the BRCS Register of Overseas Volunteers, just to indicate his name and certificate number:

MEREDITH Edmund, Chauffeur, 13852, (died on duty).

I can't scan the pages of the 'big book' as it's too tightly bound, but if it's any help I can type up the entire Unit 1 account and send it.

Sue

[Michael Pegum]

.... if it's any help I can type up the entire Unit 1 account and send it.

Sue

No thanks, Sue, there's no need. Thank you very much for the information above.

Michael

[CharlieBris]

The guns are licence built versions of the 75mm Krupp M03 gun known as the 75mm Cannone da 75/27 mod.06.

There are some differences between these and the Krupp gun such as the top of the shield isn't as curved as the

Krupp gun and the top of the shield was hinged - it wasn't in the Krupp gun. The Italian guns were mostly built by

Ansaldo. They were modified between the wars for vehicle towing (smaller, rubber tired wheels) and served in

WW2. More at http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles.html?load=artillery_articles/Cannone_75_27.html

Regards,

Charlie

[Michael Pegum]

The guns are licence built versions of the 75mm Krupp M03 gun known as the 75mm Cannone da 75/27 mod.06.

Regards,

Charlie

Thanks! I knew that one of the experts on the Forum would provide the answer, and I have much more information than I expected.

Michael