Any Help with this Badge

[themonsstar]

I was shown this photo last night, the badge is LF, I said its not The Lancashire Fusilies.

I have a feeling its the Legion of Frontiersmen (not the 25th (Frontiersmen)Battalion The Royal Fusiliers Regiment(City of London)this was part of the Imperial Overseas Legion of Frontiersmen.

Cheers for any help

[SteveE]

Roy

It is indeed Legion of Frontiersmen, note NOT Imperial Overseas Legion of Frontiersmen which was a later breakaway organisation. Any idea who he is?

Not as clear as your image but the attached is Arthur Henry Robinson wearing the same cap and collar badges. I can't remember what Robinson's Legion rank was but he later became a Second Lieutenant with the 25th Royal Fusiliers and was Killed in Action on 11th June 1917.

Regards

Steve

[ATNOMIS]

I was shown this photo last night, the badge is LF, I said its not The Lancashire Fusilies.

I have a feeling its the Legion of Frontiersmen (not the 25th (Frontiersmen)Battalion The Royal Fusiliers Regiment(City of London)this was part of the Imperial Overseas Legion of Frontiersmen.

Cheers for any help

What medal ribbon is he wearing??

Or is it a little high for a medal ribbon?

Regards

Atnomis

[Andrew Upton]

What medal ribbon is he wearing??

Or is it a little high for a medal ribbon?

It does look to be a medal ribband, some people tended to wear them quite high up. If it's been tinted correctly, something like the DSO (red with blue edges) would possibly be a good candidate, but whoever did the tinting might have been applying their imagination in the process, so that would be a very cautious suggestion.

[FROGSMILE]

What medal ribbon is he wearing??

Or is it a little high for a medal ribbon?

Regards

Atnomis

It was more common (but not universal) in WW1 to wear ribbons higher up, as was the practice on mess dress and other uniforms at that time. It was the veterans from WW1 who, in WW2, standardised the now contemporary practice of starting them on the line just above the pocket, in order to have room for (often many) rows above. Also the mass mobilisation in WW1 led to a large number of tailors being engaged who had not had previous experience of military tailoring and this sometimes led to some unusual positioning.

[Guest bohica]

Roy

It is indeed Legion of Frontiersmen, note NOT Imperial Overseas Legion of Frontiersmen which was a later breakaway organisation. Any idea who he is?

Not as clear as your image but the attached is Arthur Henry Robinson wearing the same cap and collar badges. I can't remember what Robinson's Legion rank was but he later became a Second Lieutenant with the 25th Royal Fusiliers and was Killed in Action on 11th June 1917.

Regards

Steve

It is my suspicion , though unproven, that the few photos around showing the British military uniform worn with the LOF cap and collar badges are early 25th RFF prior to the issue of the official 25th badges. Again this only my opinion but it is the only thing that makes sense to me as there are so very few photos of this uniform/badge combination and the badges fit the LOF time frame.

Dean

[FROGSMILE]

It is my suspicion , though unproven, that the few photos around showing the British military uniform worn with the LOF cap and collar badges are early 25th RFF prior to the issue of the official 25th badges. Again this only my opinion but it is the only thing that makes sense to me as there are so very few photos of this uniform/badge combination and the badges fit the LOF time frame.

Dean

Makes sense Dean and I too think that is very likely. I wonder if RHQ at the Tower of London have any records that might corroborate that theory.

[SteveE]

Dean/Frogsmile

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you to a point. Although inextricably linked for a number of reasons, the Legion of Frontiersmen and the 25th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (Frontiersmen) remained, throughout the war, as two separate entities. The Legion of Frontiersmen remained a paramilitary organisation, without War Office approval, but with a uniform dress code very similar to that of the force it aspired to. As such I can't buy into the theory that the combination of military uniform and LoF badges, as shown, was worn whilst waiting for official 25RF badges to arrive, especially whilst the LoF organisation was still very much active.

Take the image of Arthur Henry Robinson that I posted as my case in point. The photo clearly shows AHR with two 'pips' up and LoF insignia, I still haven't confirmed his LoF rank (I have it somewhere at home but can't lay my hands on it) but am sure it was Lieutenant as borne out by the photo. He was commissioned into the 25RF in May 1916 as a Second Lieutenant and died as such in June 1917, at no point was he a Lieutenant with that Battalion so there is no logical explanation as far as I can see for the badge/insignia/uniform combination shown in the photo to be linked to the 25RF, in my opinion it is AHR in the uniform of the LoF.

If Roy happens to know the name of the man in the original post then that may help to prove one way or the other.

Regards

Steve

p.s. Good to see you on the forum Dean.

[FROGSMILE]

Dean/Frogsmile

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you to a point. Although inextricably linked for a number of reasons, the Legion of Frontiersmen and the 25th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (Frontiersmen) remained, throughout the war, as two separate entities. The Legion of Frontiersmen remained a paramilitary organisation, without War Office approval, but with a uniform dress code very similar to that of the force it aspired to. As such I can't buy into the theory that the combination of military uniform and LoF badges, as shown, was worn whilst waiting for official 25RF badges to arrive, especially whilst the LoF organisation was still very much active.

Take the image of Arthur Henry Robinson that I posted as my case in point. The photo clearly shows AHR with two 'pips' up and LoF insignia, I still haven't confirmed his LoF rank (I have it somewhere at home but can't lay my hands on it) but am sure it was Lieutenant as borne out by the photo. He was commissioned into the 25RF in May 1916 as a Second Lieutenant and died as such in June 1917, at no point was he a Lieutenant with that Battalion so there is no logical explanation as far as I can see for the badge/insignia/uniform combination shown in the photo to be linked to the 25RF, in my opinion it is AHR in the uniform of the LoF.

If Roy happens to know the name of the man in the original post then that may help to prove one way or the other.

Regards

Steve

p.s. Good to see you on the forum Dean.

Thank you for your key input, this is clearly a unit you know a great deal about whereas I know very little concerning the LoF. It will be interesting to see what eventual conclusion is reached.

[themonsstar]

Hi all

Here is the up-date that I was given tonight.

The photgraphic print is Rowland Winn, Pioneer of motor-racing (winner 1910 Brooklands?),Lord Mayor of Leeds 1937, died 1953.

[SteveE]

The photgraphic print is Rowland Winn

Roy

Thanks for the update, it certainly helps as far as I'm concerned and I'll stick with my original answer. The uniform in question is that of the Legion of Frontiersmen and, as Rowland Winn was never involved with the 25th Bn. Royal Fusiliers, has nothing to do with that Battalion.

Regards

Steve

[SteveE]

It's been a while since this thread was active but the following snippet from the Yorkshire Evening News (7th December, 1917) adds some information and actually provides a link between the two photos;

"Captain Rowland Winn, Leeds Squadron of the Legion of Frontiersmen, has been appointed staff officer, vice Major A. H. Robinson, killed in action."

Steve