Long Service Medals to Territorial soldiers and officers

[Nigel Marshall]

I've been thinking about the various medals awarded to recognise long service by Territorial soldiers and officers. In the first 30 years of the 20th Century the medals awarded for 'part time' service went through many changes and it is possible that some of the longer serving memebers of territorial units might have served through the life span of 2 or three variants of 'efficiency' medals.

My question is this: If a territorial soldier qualified for a Territorial Force Efficiency Medal in 1910 and continued to serve for another 12 years, by which time the TFEM had been repalced by the Territorial Efficiency Medal, would he qualify for a bar to the now obsolete TFEM, a new Territorial Efficiency Medal, or a Territorial Efficiency Medal Bar to fix to his TFEM ribbon?

What would the situation be for officers in a similar position with their equivalent officers' decorations?

Cheers,

Nigel

[Ken Lees]

Nigel,

This has been discussed recently on the British Medal Forum. This was one response:

"The bars for the TFEM weren't authorised until 1919. The TEM is basically a continuation of the TFEM. The EM is a different beast, though broadly similar in regulations. Those serving at the introduction of the EM, and who held TFEM/TEMs, and who were due a second bar were given the option of receiving the 'new' EM rather than another bar to their medals. The first bar was forfeited. There were, however, those who had TFEM/TEMs with bars and an EM. In such cases the EM was earned in its own right, e.g. 12(ws@dr)+6+12."

Ken

[ianjonesncl]

Nigel

One factor to throw in is the fact the Territorial Force was stood down at the end of WW1. It was reformed in 1920 as Territorial Army. From the documentation I have seen, former TF soldiers had to re-attest when joining the TA.

I have no idea on the effect on medal entitlement.

[Nigel Marshall]

Yes, Ian, I have two sets of papers to TF soldiers who re-attested but I didn't realise that this might be a universal requirement of those who wished to soldier on from one organisation to the other, or that the TF was stood down altogether. Was there a hiatus when nothing in the way of part time soldiering existed or was the TA created the day after the TF was stood down or something similar?

Thanks Ken, I'm a BMF member, so I shall seek out the thread. Forfieting their first bar seems a bit harsh, I've got to say!

Cheers,

Nigel

[rflory]

The same holds true for the LS&GCM. The clasp for the LS&GCM was not authorized until the early 1940s (1944, IIRC). If a soldier received the Army LG&GCM prior to 1930 and then completed a second period of qualification after 1930 he received the Military LG&GCM rather than a clasp. See the medal group below which contains both the Army LS&GCM (pre-1930) and the Military LS&GCM (post-1930). Dick Flory

[Nigel Marshall]

Thank you Dick. I hadn't realised that the Regular Army's medals followed that pattern too. I've only been collecting medals for 30 years, so I've still a lot of learning to do!

Cheers,

Nigel

[ianjonesncl]

Nigel,

This has been discussed recently on the British Medal Forum. This was one response:

"The bars for the TFEM weren't authorized until 1919. The TEM is basically a continuation of the TFEM. The EM is a different beast, though broadly similar in regulations. Those serving at the introduction of the EM, and who held TFEM/TEMs, and who were due a second bar were given the option of receiving the 'new' EM rather than another bar to their medals. The first bar was forfeited. There were, however, those who had TFEM/TEMs with bars and an EM. In such cases the EM was earned in its own right, e.g. 12(ws@dr)+6+12."

Ken

Ken

Interestingly enough this is similar to the process that was adopted when moving from the Territorial Decoration and Territorial Efficiency Medal to the Volunteer Reserve Service Medal(VRSM) in recent years. The choice was between accepting a bar, or the VRSM (or indeed in my case handing a bar in return for a VRSM.).

[ianjonesncl]

Yes, Ian, I have two sets of papers to TF soldiers who re-attested but I didn't realise that this might be a universal requirement of those who wished to soldier on from one organisation to the other, or that the TF was stood down altogether. Was there a hiatus when nothing in the way of part time soldiering existed or was the TA created the day after the TF was stood down or something similar?

Thanks Ken, I'm a BMF member, so I shall seek out the thread. Forfieting their first bar seems a bit harsh, I've got to say!

Cheers,

Nigel

Nigel

Afraid I am using wikipedia as a source ! so verification needed;

"Following the Armistice all units of the Territorial Force were gradually disbanded.New recruiting started in early 1920, and the Territorial Force was reconstituted 7 February 1920. On 1 October 1920 the Territorial Force was renamed the Territorial Army."

So actually it looks like the TF was back for a short while, however I think the point about attestation still stands.

Interesting question about the reaction to the disbanding of TF units. After 4 years of war one can imagine many felt they had 'done their bit' . I also wonder if there was a thought that they had fought in a war to end wars, so no one would be needed in the future. I believe recruiting was actually quite slow in 1920, and the same happened in 1947 when the TA was reconstituted in 1947 after WW2.

[Nigel Marshall]

FM Viscount Gort VC, Ect certainly felt that the government of the day felt that no one would be needed and reflected it in the equivalent of the Defence Budget during his tenure as ICGS on the 1930s when he was constantly trying to wring another shilling from Hoare-Belisha, but that is another thread for another forum I think.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Jock]

I have been researching my G/Father, not much came out on his WWI service records, BUT, he soldiered on into WWII and his records are all there. Even a re-write of his WWI papers

He joined the TF in Feb 1914 and ended up as Class "Z" at the end of the Great War. Being discharged on Demobilization 31st March 1920. There is what looks like a 5 month break before re-attesting and joining the TA in August 1920 until he was medically discharge in late 1943 after 23+ years service

He was awarded the TEM (His original issued medal had the same riband on it as the TFEM) as well as the EM(T) first type with kings crown clasp. I wrote MOD Medals and they say that it was " unusual to be awarded both medals! but as records show he was awarded them then he has the right to wear them!"

Also trying to work out when he should have been awarded his TEM and the following EM (T) and later clasp to this medal. I believe that he should have been awarded them closer to 2 years before he actually did? Have written MOD Medals to find out more on this!

As for the EM(T) for the 4th Gordons in the lead up posts, this could just be a "ringer" some one elses medal from the family just put all together for safe keeping?

If he re-joined and soldiered on he would no doubt have qualified for the TEM (1921 to 1930) as the EM(T) pictured was not instituted until the 17th Oct 1930.

King George V crowned in coronation robes was the first of the Efficiency Medals "Territorial" "Militia" as well as with different country names on the bar of these medals

Worth a closer look at the obverse to see what is on the medal as there were two issues of this medal with King George the VI on it

KGVI - Crowned profile INDIAE : IMP in legend 1937 - 48

KGVI - Crowned profile with FID: DEF in legend 1949 - 52

Jock