theodore Posted 11 January , 2011 Share Posted 11 January , 2011 Is it just me or is there a problem with the LG search engine. I have tried without any success to get the citations for the following men. 8713 George Crump M.C. LG date8.3.15 CQMS 8713 George Crump D.C.M. LG date 1.1.18 Sgt. 10070 F.W. Day D.CM. LG date 1.1.19 Sgt. 8670 E. Edwards LG date 3.10.18 9343 T.V. Churches D.C.M. LG date 5.8.15 RSM 4893 Cyril Charles Tough M.M. LG date 27.7.16 I have a number of names that I have been able to find but the above have proved impossible to date to find, having tried a number of ways to enter details but no luck. Can anyone help please? Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm45 Posted 11 January , 2011 Share Posted 11 January , 2011 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1913&iid=31825_217834-00608&fn=G.&ln=Crump&st=r&ssrc=&pid=6291 8713 George Crumps DCM citation on Ancestry....LG 30/10/18 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1913&iid=31825_217834-00607&fn=T.V.&ln=Churches&st=r&ssrc=&pid=6281 TV Churches is also on Ancestry. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1913&iid=31825_217834-00609&fn=F.W.&ln=Day&st=r&ssrc=&pid=6300 And Days Ady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharkin56 Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 add his service number in london gazette not his name filter on ww1 http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31109/supplements/315 http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30086/supplements/5033 I find this the quickest way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Here's CC Tough; http://www.london-ga...s/8239/page.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Things are sometimes not as easy to find as they might be because of the way the text has been scanned and converted from an image to (hopefully) readable text. In particular, spaces and line breaks sometimes mean that the last forename and surname get run together, so it's often worth giving e.g. georgeday a go as a search term. Harder to resolve is when the surname gets run together with some of the details of the next man - since you have no way of knowing who that's going to be. As others have said, often the number gives you more success. It can also be worth trying just the forenames or initials, particularly if they are not too common. Also, remember that most awards appear in supplements, and these are filed under the date of the main gazette issue to which they were a supplement, meaning you need to search over a range of several days starting before the dates you have for the awards. For example, you have two awards which look like they are probably in New Year Honours lists (dated 1 January 1918 and 1919 respectively). You need to start your search from say 27 December to make sure you have some chance of picking these up. It can be better to search on the medal name, and then work your way through the list. another useful thing to search on is the phrase graciously pleased which is always used in the introductory formula, something like "HM the King is graciously pleased to award the Distinguished Conduct Medal to the following non-commissioned officers and men" Where did you get the award dates from? If the cards in Documents Online, these usually also have a page number on as well. Page numbers are usually unique within a year (though the New Year Honours for this period is normally the one which starts at page 1, so you need to allow a search range back into December as explained above). Then you simply put the the page number into the search engine with date(s) and then the awards are normally listed in alphabetical order on the page so it shouldn't be too hard to find after that. Also, there are now the official indexes for the Gazette available on the website, if you download those, you should be able to get a page and issue number if you don't already have it. Google's indexes suffer less from the problem mentioned abvoe of consecutive entries being run together, so a google search for "george day" site:www.london-gazette.co.uk may bring more hits, but there's no way of restricting the date range when doing this, so if you're looking for Fred Smith you'll probably be overwhelmed with false positives. Finally, when you have a date, it can help to understand how the url is made up: to take one of the ones from above, http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30086/supplements/5033 the first element after the site name is always issues followed by / and the issue number then we can that this particular issue is a supplement as the next part is supplements, again followed by a / and then the page number. So if you are at the first or last page of a particular gazette, you can move to the previous or next one by reducing the issue number by one and the page number by one to move to the next earlier gaztte (and adding one to each to move to a later one from the last page). Sometimes you'll get a not found type error, this is usually because you're going from a supplement into a normal issue, try changing supplements to pages in the url (or vice-versa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodore Posted 13 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2011 Hi all, Many thanks for your advice on searching the London Gazette website. I will be attempting to search again and hope to have better luck. Also thank you for the leads on Tough, Crumps and Churches. David I got the dates from 'The Worcestershire Regiment in the Great War' by Stacke, all the men I am researching served with the 2nd Battalion of the Worcesters. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 13 January , 2011 Share Posted 13 January , 2011 The advice above is excellent, but with a bit of luck you can find them very quickly. Especially with a service number. I googled; 4893 tough "london gazette" If you try that, you will see that the top six results are about your man, three gazette entries, this thread, and the Worcester pages you mention. The only downside is that you can't navigate back through the Gazette pages to find out what it's about, however you are now armed with the page number and date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 14 January , 2011 Share Posted 14 January , 2011 Forgot that bit, just delete /page.pdf off the end of theurls that Google returns, and you'll get the navigation bar back again (or just manually change the page number in the url...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 14 January , 2011 Share Posted 14 January , 2011 F W Day E Edwards T V Churches G Crump [bar to DCM] G Crump [MC 1918] All of the above found in Edinburgh Gazette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodore Posted 14 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2011 Many thanks again to you all for your help, especially Diane. You have saved me some considerable time searching for Churces, Crump, Day and Edwards, this has shortened my list down to just five names now. Again many thanks. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 14 January , 2011 Share Posted 14 January , 2011 Hi Peter. Which other 5 are you looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodore Posted 14 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2011 Hi Diane, All D.C.M. awards Have now found Sgt. Wells and CSM Mayston so now down to three. CQMS 8713 George Crump LG date 1/1/18 (I have his Bar award to his D.C.M.) L/Cpl. 8914 Edward Lloyd LG date 3/6/19 Sgt. Ernest Welch LG date 5/8/15 All LG dates from Stacke. Thanks again for the previous citations you supplied, it was a real help. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 14 January , 2011 Share Posted 14 January , 2011 Hi Peter E Lloyd E Welch Both found in the Edinburgh Gazette. George is proving extremely difficult to find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodore Posted 15 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2011 Hi Diane Many thanks for the time and trouble you have taken in finding the DCM citations that were proving such a problem for me. Yes George is indeed proving to be a difficult chap to find. I very much appreciate your help and everyone else who gave ideas on searching the LG site. Best regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azureus Posted 15 January , 2011 Share Posted 15 January , 2011 regards dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodore Posted 15 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2011 Hi Dave, Many thanks for the George Crump citation, it had me beat trying to find him. Thank you all again for your help. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 18 January , 2011 Share Posted 18 January , 2011 Dave can you find the one for 1915? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azureus Posted 18 January , 2011 Share Posted 18 January , 2011 hi diane , i wasnt aware there was one for george in 1915 , i found two both in 1918 regards dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 18 January , 2011 Share Posted 18 January , 2011 Is it just me or is there a problem with the LG search engine. 8713 George Crump M.C. LG date8.3.15 Peter It's only this one that can't be found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPotter Posted 20 January , 2011 Share Posted 20 January , 2011 Can any explain why some citations should appear in the Edinburgh Gazette, and not the London Gazette? Thanks Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 21 January , 2011 Share Posted 21 January , 2011 The EG entries are basically repeats of the original LG entry, it's just the digitisation process sometimes happens to have been kinder to teh EG manking it easier to find those entries. Unfortunately I odn't think there's any way to work out which LG it would orignially ahve appeared in from the EG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodore Posted 22 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2011 Hi Diane and Dave, I must apologise I have got the wrong date for 8713 George Crumps M.C., IT SHOULD BE 8.3.1919. No wonder I had trouble with this one, again sorry for misleading you. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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