msdt Posted 5 September , 2014 Share Posted 5 September , 2014 Hi Trajan, "Instructions for Armourers", want to get a copy and see what's in. Re SG, the third battalion was disbanded in 1919 and reformed in 1940 - so the plot thickens!!! Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 September , 2014 Share Posted 5 September , 2014 Cheers mate! Time I got away from doing Turkish and German sources and paid more attention to GB ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt-maj Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Hello gentlemen... An interesting post this! However... I don't know how, but it seems to have slipped off at a very interesting tangent. The markings upon British Bayonet Pommels... known as 'Regimentally marked'... will normally have an abbreviation of the following:- 1) Regiment. 2) Company within that Regiment. 3) Rifle rack number within the company's armoury. There are instances whereby the rifle serial number has been used instead of the company rack reference. I may have picked up on this incorrectly, but there seems to be an idea that the individual soldier would have taken his rifle with him if transferring to another battalion... or different regiment. Hence the idea of the soldiers individual number being used upon the bayonet pommel. This is incorrect. Weapons when issued to a certain battalion, is where they stayed. Where a weapon is removed from a battlefield, they are sent to a central depot where they are distributed for re-issue. This is also the case for weapons upon a battalions disbandment, and upon a weapon being classed as obsolete. With the above said, it would be quite easy to let ones imagination run a tad upon studying the header post pic of the pommel of a Pattern 1903. It is indeed an interesting service history record. Shippingsteel... Rather than an oblique shot of the markings as is shown, may I request a full on shot please? Although I do not doubt your own interpretation of the pommel stampings, a full-on shot would make the reading so much easier for others! Seph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 ... The markings upon British Bayonet Pommels... known as 'Regimentally marked'... will normally have an abbreviation of the following:- 1) Regiment. 2) Company within that Regiment. 3) Rifle rack number within the company's armoury. There are instances whereby the rifle serial number has been used instead of the company rack reference. I may have picked up on this incorrectly, but there seems to be an idea that the individual soldier would have taken his rifle with him if transferring to another battalion... or different regiment. Hence the idea of the soldiers individual number being used upon the bayonet pommel. This is incorrect. Rather than an oblique shot of the markings as is shown, may I request a full on shot please? Although I do not doubt your own interpretation of the pommel stampings, a full-on shot would make the reading so much easier for others! Welcome L/Cpl Sgt/Maj (Seph)! You'll find lots to enjoy here, and it is always nice to have a newcomer's perspective especially one who has a grounding in the subject as you evidently have - after all, it is a forum and we all add bits and pieces that generate debate and which are sometimes even of practical use! Oh, and yes, threads do often go off on a tangent... I think most of the older hands here are fully aware of what the markings should be, but every so often something crops up that doesn't quite fit the system, as with SS's P.1903... In fact although I don't specialise in UK bayonet markings, I have noted a fair number that are marked with simply the official regiment abbreviation, or a variation thereof, and just the rack number, with no company number, or just rack numbers... In fact all of my P.1888's and P.1903's have rack numbers only on the pommel, no regimental markings, except for one example of each where there is a regimental abbreviation but nothing for the company... If you go through the various P.1907 (and P.1888 and P.1903) threads on GWF you will find plenty like that, That aside, I don't seriously think that anyone suggested a man took his rifle with him when he changed unit - that throw-away comment associating 'WN' with an individual was a throw-away that SS seems to have taken seriously! As for a proper shot of those P.1903 markings, well SS might oblige, but don't keep your fingers crossed... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt-maj Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Thanks TRAGAN. I was quite a regular here myself a while back, and can see that many of the old-n-bold are still about, with several newer faces. It will be nice to re-connect! Reading the other ricasso markings of the '03', its quite a simple task to place the two units as marked. The '03's blade was initially a Pattern 1888 Lee-Metford (as already explained) manufactured in April (04) 1901. The initial issue of this item however is shown as being in '06' (1906) which matches with the first pommel stamping of '2-CG' = 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards (if the pommel stamping is in fact 'CG'). What does not appear to have been looked at here, is the reason for the rather quick re-issue in '07' (1907). The Pattern-1907 was issued with, and used on the SMLE No1 Mk1 (1903 / 06). The SMLE No.1 Mk3 came about in 1906/07. Would not the pommel stampings of this particular '03' coinside with the withdrawl of SMLE No1 Mk1's, and issue of SMLE No1 Mk3's to the '2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards', then the issue of the SMLE No1 Mk1's to the 2nd unit? I've been collecting British Bayonets for a number of decades, specialising in the Pattern 1907. Its nice to be back! Seph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Like I guessed, a chap who knows his stuff! Welcome back - and see if the admin can re-connect to your old user name and previous threads. Should make interesting reading for me, who only joined in 2011! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 Hi Trajan, "Instructions for Armourers", want to get a copy and see what's in. Re SG, the third battalion was disbanded in 1919 and reformed in 1940 - so the plot thickens!!! Cheers, Tony Hi Tony, Still haven't managed to get my hands on a later copy of "Instructions", but for the record, Roses' book on the P1888/P1903 has reprinted them for 1904 (also 1897!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 Hi Trajan, Will have to get that book! Getting very French oriented at the moment, my latest helmet (my third) from the weekend before last on the Equipment thread, and last Sunday got a Chassepot rifle (presently on Gunboards) to try my 1866 bayonets on! OK I guess the rifle doesn't qualify for GWF, but the bayonets saw some use! Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 23 April , 2015 Share Posted 23 April , 2015 ... and last Sunday got a Chassepot rifle (presently on Gunboards) to try my 1866 bayonets on! OK I guess the rifle doesn't qualify for GWF, but the bayonets saw some use! If with German markings - no problem! Used by Landsturm certainly! See: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219748#entry2181036post 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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