New Zealand Division books

[zippy.72]

Fancy looking into my great-great uncle's war service with NZAMC and saw that a book 'From the Uttermost Ends of the Earth' is available. Has anybody read it and what do they think?

[ZackNZ]

Yes I've read it - it's appalling! Don't waste your money!

Zack

[Herekawe]

Hi

There are the various books about the NZ Division like the NZ Division 1916-19 by Col H Stewart and the Regimental Histories available either from N and M Press or online from www.nzetc.org .

I also like On My Way to the Somme by Andrew MacDonald which pretty much covers the NZ Divisions activities in 1916 and Gly Harpers "Dark Journey" which actually is three books, Massacre at Passchendaele forms the first part of the book, then it covers NZ Div role in stopping the German advance between Hamel and Herbuterne on the old Somme Battlefield then finally the Battle of Bapaume. He also has social commentary for example his comments on the size of the NZ Division compared with other units, New Zealand having introduced conscription early meant the Division was pretty much up to strength for most of the war, possibly the biggest division in the BEF for most of 1917- 1918.

Ian Passinghams " Pillars of Fire" covers Messines pretty well and the Battleground Europe Books on Messines, Flers and Passchendale cover NZs role quite well.

Also NZ gets useful mentions in a few Australian books.

Less useful are books like Imperial War Museum Book of the Somme which manages to explain the capture of Flers without mentioning another divison between the 41st and 47th - I mention that as an example of a book purchased where I should have checked the index before purchase!

Regards

James

[zippy.72]

Yes I've read it - it's appalling! Don't waste your money!

Zack

Thanks Zack-that will save me a few quid!

Tim

Hi

There are the various books about the NZ Division like the NZ Division 1916-19 by Col H Stewart and the Regimental Histories available either from N and M Press or online from www.nzetc.org .

I also like On My Way to the Somme by Andrew MacDonald which pretty much covers the NZ Divisions activities in 1916 and Gly Harpers "Dark Journey" which actually is three books, Massacre at Passchendaele forms the first part of the book, then it covers NZ Div role in stopping the German advance between Hamel and Herbuterne on the old Somme Battlefield then finally the Battle of Bapaume. He also has social commentary for example his comments on the size of the NZ Division compared with other units, New Zealand having introduced conscription early meant the Division was pretty much up to strength for most of the war, possibly the biggest division in the BEF for most of 1917- 1918.

Ian Passinghams " Pillars of Fire" covers Messines pretty well and the Battleground Europe Books on Messines, Flers and Passchendale cover NZs role quite well.

Also NZ gets useful mentions in a few Australian books.

Less useful are books like Imperial War Museum Book of the Somme which manages to explain the capture of Flers without mentioning another divison between the 41st and 47th - I mention that as an example of a book purchased where I should have checked the index before purchase!

Regards

James

Cheers James-some good pointers there

Tim

[judy7007]

I have read three of Christopher Pugsley's books and can recommend them all

The Anzac Experience - New Zealand, Australia and Empire in the First World War

Gallipoli, The New Zealand Story

On The Fringe of Hell, New Zealanders and Military Discipline in the First World War

They are all available on interlibrary loan so you can 'try before you buy'

cheers

Judy

[(nzef)]

For indepth information of the NZMC you can view the digitised version at the following link

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH1-Medi.html

You can download this and view it in Adobe Digital Editions, which gives you the ability to do word searches. Or you could buy a reprint from Naval & Military press (No I don't have shares :-) )

Cheers

Grant

[AndyMacdonald]

Keep an eye out for my upcoming book on Passchendaele.

Andy M

[Wendy Macpherson]

Yes I've read it - it's appalling! Don't waste your money!

Zack

What on earth do you mean by that Zack! lol

Jeepers I'm half way through it and am rather enjoying the read so far

You have to remember this is a 'field guide' not a comprehensive history, if your going to boo ho the book at least give us the reasons why man. That sounded a bit like a court martial without a defence! And also... (whispers in zacks ear) there are reputed forum members that have had an input into this volume, hope you haven't just shot yourself in the foot old chap.

[Wendy Macpherson]

Keep an eye out for my upcoming book on Passchendaele.

Andy M

Yep.... ready and waiting Andy.

I'll PM you my address details closer to the time so you can send me a personally signed copy

(not kidding by the way) ~ runs!

Wendy

[ZackNZ]

Well - shot myself in the foot have I - well let's see shall we? I've been in the NZ WW1 research area for 20 years so I shall respond giving you my reasons for why I think this is an appalling book! And the bottom line is is I'm allowed my opinion!

Zack

[(nzef)]

Hi All,

Here's my two cents.

I'm not sure if this book knows what it's audience should be. If it's a guide book, then I wouldnt want to carry it around - it must weigh nearly 2kgs!. I think the pilgrimage section should be a seperate pull out. But that's just me.

I'm all for more literature on the NZEF, but if this had not been an Xmas present, and I had had a chance to flick through it, I wouldn't have purchased it. I'm not saying it's bad, it's just not for me.

Cheers

[ZackNZ]

Here are my main reasons why I dislike the book:

1. It’s annoyingly “bitsey” – a bit of this and a bit of that. Colour photos, maps (from other publications), coordinates (why?), recommendations for accommodation and lots of little coloured side bars – potted bios of soldiers / quotes from soldiers - plastered throughout the book. The road directions while appearing helpful won’t help you much at all in reality. If you have a time restriction (as I suggest most tourists would have) you actually need to be with someone who knows the area to get the maximum value from a visit.

2. The book relies totally on secondary sources. There is absolutely nothing ‘new’ here at all. For a 408 page book the 2½ page bibliography is full of secondary sources. I suggest that anyone interested in WW1 and NZ’s involvement in it should invest time reading these books listed in the bibliography plus a whole heap more not listed in this book rather than spend NZ$79.99 buying this book.

3. A ponderous prose style when not directly quoting from secondary or primary sources which tries but fails to disguise the fact that it’s an amalgam of secondary sources combined with the experience of a tourist.

4. It’s a book, because it contains an emphasis on providing current details like prices for visiting memorials, that will date as details like prices change along with landscapes.

5. It isn’t the sort of publication that I would find helpful visiting battle sites in France – apart from its sheer weight and size, there are far better (and shorter) battle site guides available. E.g. Ian McGibbon’s books are excellent. They are brief and packed with relevant information. I’ve used both his Gallipoli and NZ Battlefields and Memorial of the Western Front when visiting these areas and found them invaluable.

Perhaps the book might have a value for people who know little or nothing about WW1 and don’t know where to start obtaining information as a prelude to a battle site visit. Interestingly this website doesn’t get a specific mention yet it’s the best site to visit for expert and helpful advice.

Bottom line: Not for me and not recommended because there are much better WW1 books on the market or available electronically at cheaper rates than this one. I suspect it won’t take long for this book to be found on booksellers marked down price racks.

Zack

[Herekawe]

Hi

Like others probably I got "From the Uttermost Ends of the Earth" for Christmas and have been picking my way through it, and enjoying it to some extent although I have read or seen much of the material before and visited many of the places.

As NZEF commented I think it is physically too big to hit the travel market, althought available as an e book it might be of some use. If you wanted to organise a trip and knew little it it would give you a brief summary of possible sites to visit.

Items like, accomodation, visiting hours and prices which all change may date it fairly quickly and I am surprised the editor left them in. Likewise don't quite understand the way GPS points have been used, some places have been marked would be perfectly easy to find while locations which may be difficult to find are not GPSed?

Anyway have put it on the coffee table.

James

[Marilyne]

Hi all. 

Just looking to brush up my knowledge on the ANZACs... just read about the nurses, but an insight in the men would be good. I have Peter Pedersen's "ANZACs on the Western Front". His other book "The Anzacs: Gallipoli to the Western Front" is horrendously expensive over here and then I found the reference to Christopher Pugsley's "ANZAC experience".

What would you recommend?? 

Or maybe another, more recent publication?? 

Thanks. 

M.