thegreypanther Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 BBC radio 4 phoned me up to ask me whether I knew anything about a War Memorial that is for sale on EBay. Not a postcard, but a copper plate engraved with names. This can be seen on http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330502106354&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp5197.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D330502106354%2B%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 One of the names is an Officer of the Yorkshire Regiment, 2nd Lieutenant Geoffrey Ernest Layton-Bennett, who was in the 2nd Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment killed at the Battle of the Somme on 1 July 1916. Although it is extremely sad that such a memorial becomes a sale object on EBay, - presumably the sheet of copper is now the main attraction, it would be nice to know where the men on that memorial worked. The memorial is inscribed "THIS TABLET IS INSCRIBED IN HONOUR OF THOSE MEMBERS OF THE STAFF WHO GAVE THEIR SERVICES DURING THE GREAT WAR 1914-1918". The men who lost their lives appear to have lived in the London area, or in the South East. At a guess they may have been employed by a legal firm, or a bank. Would anybody have any ideas as to where this memorial might once have belonged? Probably too late now to return the memorial to its rightful place, - the EBay sale ends in a few hours. But it would be good to return the memorial to its rightful place, rather than have it sold for scrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 This http://www.josolyne.co.uk/about/history.html suggests there was a firm of accountants in the City of London called Layton-Bennett, given the prominence of the two names at the top of the memorial this seems a likely source. CWGC website seems to be playing up at the moment or I'd check out Geoffery E Layton-Bennett as the star looks to indicate the men killed, as opposed to those who served and survived. The ICAEW website supports this. Looks like the firm has long since been merged into other firms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 tgp I had hoped to quote the service file of the officer,Lt Geoffrey Layton-Bennett,but none show themselves in either WO339 or 374. It is almost certain that his company will be featured in his file,subject to the dreaded "Weeding". Maybe someone else can try,it seems that now and then the system plays"hide and seek". Neither can I find him on SDGW or De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 CWGC - Name: LAYTON-BENNETT, GEOFFREY ERNEST Initials: G E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Second Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Yorkshire Regiment Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 28 Date of Death: 01/07/1916 Additional information: Son of Ernest Layton-Bennett and E. Beatrice Layton-Bennett, of 10, Belsize Grove, Hampstead, London. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. F. 32. Cemetery: PERONNE ROAD CEMETERY, MARICOURT John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Kenneth retired in November 1943 http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36268/pages/5258 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potter Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 A quick google suggests it might be Ernest Layton-Bennett, who were chartered accountants in the City of London. Kenneth Layton-Bennett comes up as an advisor to the Air Ministry in 1940, so David's point about the star signifying "killed" may well be right. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 The 1911 census has a John Patrick Copinger described as a Bank Clerk, born Islington. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Name: FARROW, PERCY ROBERT Initials: P R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Corporal Regiment/Service: Honourable Artillery Company Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 15/05/1917 Service No: 5227 Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Farrow, of 16, Audley Gardens, Seven Kings, Ilford. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 1. Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL Name: WOLLMAN Initials: M Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) Unit Text: 227th Coy. Age: 20 Date of Death: 25/11/1917 Service No: 115620 Additional information: Son of Leah Lefcovitch (formerly Wollman), of 30, Great Garden St., London, E. I., and the late Morris Wollman. Native of Stepney, London. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: II. C. 5. Cemetery: FINS NEW BRITISH CEMETERY, SOREL-LE-GRAND There are a number of matches for Snow W. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 MICs, http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3dlayton%7clast_name%3dbennett&catid=10&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Woods Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Geoffrey has already made an appearance on this forum before http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113852 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 The company were taken over by Arthur Young, now Ernst & Young, I've phoned their London office but at this time on a Friday I haven't been able to get hold of their archivist/librarian; such a shame, the sale ends tomorrow. I'd be tempted to buy it myself but the postage for 6lb of copper to the UK....... EDIT: Perhaps the Greypanther can let R4 know; Ernst & Young may be prompted by them ....!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 1911 census lists Geoffrey as chartered accountant and Kenneth as Articled Clerk, living with their father, also Ernest and also a Chartered Accountant, surname given as plain Bennett, Layton given as one of the father's forenames. Based on WO 338, Geoffrey is in WO 339/50652 (indexed in WO 338 as Layton-Bennett, but as plain G Bennett in WO 339). Kenneth possibly WO 339/79275. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Looks like the story is going to be featured on BBC R4 this evening on 'PM'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 I've contacted the seller on ebay and pointed them to this thread, and asked them to consider removing it from sale until E&Y can be contacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Would be nice to find out how the seller came by it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 December , 2010 Admin Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Probably too late now to return the memorial to its rightful place, - the EBay sale ends in a few hours. But it would be good to return the memorial to its rightful place, rather than have it sold for scrap. It seems the vendor has done some basic research and I think it unlikely the item will be scrapped as the current bids exceed the UK scrap value of around £4/kilo. It seems someone saved this piece and it's now being sold in a 'collector's market'. There must have been hundreds of these small memorials that ended up in the skip in the sixties and seventies. I'm researching two memorials (allegedly now in 'private hands' ) that were rescued from a skip when the respective buildings were demolished or converted. Good luck to them there are 3 bids on this item already, I've no connection with the vendor but at least it gets them in the open unlike the one's Im researching which are said to be in the back of a garage From a quick google search it seems that an accountancy firm with the name Layton-Bennet etc was absorbed into Arthur Young around 1929 http://www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/120061/icaew_ga/Home/About_us/History_of_accounting/Resources_Firms_Family_Trees/Family_Tree_Arthur_Young/pdf The Arthur Young 'family tree' referred to is on the Institute of Chartered Accountant's site, they may be interested (that should push the price up!) especially with 2014 coming up. As with the memorials above I doubt the 'rightful place' still exists (and no doubt the officers and men are commemorated elsewhere) but it's still a fine piece. Perhaps you should advise the Institute and give them the opportunity to bid. http://www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/158423/icaew_ga/en/Home/Institute_of_Chartered_Accountants_in_England_and_Wales but as said at 445 on a friday Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Postage estimated as $46. I wonder if Ernst & Young would be interested in having it as part of their heritage. I suspect yes. Nice to bring it home. I would put in a few quid towards this end. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 December , 2010 Admin Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Would be nice to find out how the seller came by it in the first place. read the listing then... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 December , 2010 Admin Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Just heard the piece on PM didn't agree with all that was said but well done. I wish I could get the same publicity for my 'lost 'memorials. As I said before the seller has done a service in that she has put this in the open, given anyone in the world an opportunity to buy it, including the formidable lady on pm or the 'Green Howards' Museum'. So what's the alternative leave them lying around in attics in the UK? What this has achieved is national publicity that so many of our memorials are in disrepair. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 David's point about the star signifying "killed" may well be right. It does actually say at the bottom of the plaque: * KILLED OR DIED OF WOUNDS RECEIVED IN ACTION It also seems to have omitted at least one person who should have had a star, and there are a few others with London connections in the CWGC which can't be linked easily: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=452164 Name: COPINGER, JOHN PATRICK Initials: J P Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Second Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Oxford and Bucks Light Infantry Unit Text: 4th Bn. Age: 29 Date of Death: 10/09/1917 Additional information: Son of Annie Stewart Copinger, of 30, Sherborne Gardens, Ealing, London, and the late Rev. H. E. Copinger. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: XVI. E. 14. Cemetery: NEW IRISH FARM CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreypanther Posted 3 December , 2010 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Many thanks for all the contributions to this thread. The request by the BBC for me to say a few words was totally out of the blue, and I was only given a couple of hours to get thoughts in order. Hopefully the memorial will be placed somewhere appropriate, and not just simply disappear into somebody's "collection" or - worst of all - be scrapped. Geoffrey Layton-Bennett was, of course, an officer of the Yorkshire Regiment (aka the Green Howards) and is commemorated on the Yorkshire Regiment Remembrance website, http://www.ww1-yorkshires.org.uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linge Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 "With the Colours" "A list of Chartered and Incorporated Accountants and their Clerks who have joined the Colours", gives the following for the firm of E. Layton-Bennett & Co (London) E. Bennett RFA F W Doe 6th City of London Batt W F Edwards RFA G E Layton Bennett ACA, LRB K A Layton Bennett ACA (Capt)7th Middx R H Ling QVR W Snow 7th City of London R L Stanbrough RFA R G Wallis LRB All of whom appear to tie in. Regards Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEASIDER Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 IS ANYONE BIDDING ON THIS TONIGHT????? SHAME IF SOME MEMBERS WERE BIDDING AGAINST EACH OTHER, REGARDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 Now up to $184.00. Bidder e**r has kept ahead of all other bids. Obviously not being bought for scrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Woods Posted 3 December , 2010 Share Posted 3 December , 2010 I was thinking of putting in a bid of $200 but it has now gone upto $250!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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