Lance-Bombardier, Bombardier,

[Ruth Ward]

Hello, I'm researching my grandfather's military service, & wondered if anyone could explain what the roles of Lance-Bombardier & Bombardier entailed, & how they differed from, say, a Gunner. My grandfather held each of these roles/ranks during his service, but I haven't got any idea what the first two involved. Any help would be much appreciated.

Ruth

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Lance Bombardier is an "Appointment" corresponding to Lance Corporal in other branches of the Army. Bombardier is the equivalent of Corporal a "proper" NCO rank in other branches of the Army,"Gunner" being the term for a "Private" Soldier in the Royal Regiment of Artillery,similarly Guardsman,Rifleman,Sapper,etc in other specialist branches.

[Ian Riley]

Ruth,

I think that there have been a series of discussions about this and this link (quick click) should go to a previous post that contains links to yet other posts. There is a post of my own somewhere but I have forgotten the more intricate detail. If I recall correctly, a Bombardier was an NCO's rank similar (but not exactly the same as a corporal in another branch of the Army and possibly, I think, at some stage definitely junior to a corporal) whilst a Lance Bombardier in the Great War was an appointment (rather than a permanent rank) that made a man junior to a bombardier but who could be in charge of gunners or drivers (the rank held in the artillery by private soldiers). That is, however, a definite simplification: the Pay Warrants and King's Regulations set out the exact pecking order of these appointments and ranks. Effectively they are junior NCOs in the artillery. If you are lucky, an expert willl appear to give you chapter and verse from memory

Ian

PS Directly to the thread in mind click here but do read down the thread rather than the first few posts. I had forgotten about 'acting bombardier'. It appears there that in the Great War, bombardier was definitely junior to a corporal. I think my post that I mentioned was about 2nd Corporals in the Royal Engineers.

Edited 28 November , 2010 by Ian Riley

[squirrel]

In WW1 Bombardier in RA equivalent to a Lance Corporal - the RA had Corporals at that time also.

Lance Bombardier and Bombardier equivalent to Corporal are post W1.

[rflory]

Squirrel is correct. During the Great War the Royal Artillery had the following ranks:

Gunner: equivalent to infantry Private; no chevrons

Bombardier: no equivalent in the infantry: one chevron

Corporal: equivalent to an infantry Corporal: two chevrons

Serjeant: equivalent to an infantry Serjeant: three chevrons

Dick Flory

[tony paley]

Ruth

Now you know what Bombardiers were you also asked what his role was. It would help if you knew what unit he served with. The Royal Artillery was a very large Regiment which provded Field, Seige (Heavy) , Horse amd Tench mortar Batteries. His role as a bombardier would be much the same as a Gunner, and he would have probably been part of a gun detachment. He certainly would have been considered for a minor supervisory role.

Tony P

[Ruth Ward]

Lance Bombardier is an "Appointment" corresponding to Lance Corporal in other branches of the Army. Bombardier is the equivalent of Corporal a "proper" NCO rank in other branches of the Army,"Gunner" being the term for a "Private" Soldier in the Royal Regiment of Artillery,similarly Guardsman,Rifleman,Sapper,etc in other specialist branches.

Many thanks for that, Harry. Unfortunately all these 'Ranks' & 'Appointments' mean absolutely nothing to me, as I'm not a military person & have little knowledge of such things.

[Ruth Ward]

Ruth,

I think that there have been a series of discussions about this and this link (quick click) should go to a previous post that contains links to yet other posts. There is a post of my own somewhere but I have forgotten the more intricate detail. If I recall correctly, a Bombardier was an NCO's rank similar (but not exactly the same as a corporal in another branch of the Army and possibly, I think, at some stage definitely junior to a corporal) whilst a Lance Bombardier in the Great War was an appointment (rather than a permanent rank) that made a man junior to a bombardier but who could be in charge of gunners or drivers (the rank held in the artillery by private soldiers). That is, however, a definite simplification: the Pay Warrants and King's Regulations set out the exact pecking order of these appointments and ranks. Effectively they are junior NCOs in the artillery. If you are lucky, an expert willl appear to give you chapter and verse from memory

Ian

PS Directly to the thread in mind click here but do read down the thread rather than the first few posts. I had forgotten about 'acting bombardier'. It appears there that in the Great War, bombardier was definitely junior to a corporal. I think my post that I mentioned was about 2nd Corporals in the Royal Engineers.

Ian,

... My head hurts!

Thank you for that link, & the information. It's given me a bit more of an idea of what my grandfather might have been doing. Would an 'appointment' have required an interview, or were they given on merit/as circumstances required? Would he have got more pay? Were they for a set period of time?

Ruth

[Ruth Ward]

In WW1 Bombardier in RA equivalent to a Lance Corporal - the RA had Corporals at that time also.

Lance Bombardier and Bombardier equivalent to Corporal are post W1.

Thank you Squirrel.

Ruth

[Ruth Ward]

In WW1 Bombardier in RA equivalent to a Lance Corporal - the RA had Corporals at that time also.

Lance Bombardier and Bombardier equivalent to Corporal are post W1.

Thank you Squirrel. On my grandfather's MM Medal Card it states that he is a Lance Bombardier ('L/Bdr'). However, on the letter written to my grandmother, informing her of his award, he is referred to as 'Bombardier' (letter dated 1/7/1918). Does this sound right?

Ruth

[Muerrisch]

Squirrel is correct. During the Great War the Royal Artillery had the following ranks:

Gunner: equivalent to infantry Private; no chevrons

Bombardier: no equivalent in the infantry: one chevron

Corporal: equivalent to an infantry Corporal: two chevrons

Serjeant: equivalent to an infantry Serjeant: three chevrons

Dick Flory

and Driver!

and what happened to infantry lance-corporal? OK, it was an appointment with one chevron for a private of horse or foot, but it did have same badge as Bombardier.

[squirrel]

Bombardier on the letter for the MM award in 1918 would be correct. There are sometimes errors, understandably, on the MIC's considering how many were created and all by hand.

FWIW my uncle's 14-15 Star has Gunner on it and the BWM and VM Corporal.

[Ruth Ward]

and Driver!

and what happened to infantry lance-corporal? OK, it was an appointment with one chevron for a private of horse or foot, but it did have same badge as Bombardier.

Thank you, Grumpy. No Lance-Bombardier then?

Ruth

[Ruth Ward]

Bombardier on the letter for the MM award in 1918 would be correct. There are sometimes errors, understandably, on the MIC's considering how many were created and all by hand.

FWIW my uncle's 14-15 Star has Gunner on it and the BWM and VM Corporal.

Thank you - that's great! I'd thought if there had been a mistake it would be the other way round, but what you say makes perfect sense. Thanks again.

[Ruth Ward]

Ruth

Now you know what Bombardiers were you also asked what his role was. It would help if you knew what unit he served with. The Royal Artillery was a very large Regiment which provded Field, Seige (Heavy) , Horse amd Tench mortar Batteries. His role as a bombardier would be much the same as a Gunner, and he would have probably been part of a gun detachment. He certainly would have been considered for a minor supervisory role.

Tony P

Tony

My grandfather served with 293 Siege Battery RGA, & was with the 94th HAG during the campaign in Italy (all of 1918+). They had 4 x 6" Howitzers & were mostly employed on 'counter-battery work'. Does this make his role any clearer?

Thanks

Ruth

[Ruth Ward]

and Driver!

and what happened to infantry lance-corporal? OK, it was an appointment with one chevron for a private of horse or foot, but it did have same badge as Bombardier.

Thank you, Grumpy. I think I'm getting there.

Ruth

[Muerrisch]

Thank you, Grumpy. No Lance-Bombardier then?

Ruth

Definitions needed! This is a very simplified version.

rank = permanent pay grade, position in hierarchy, can only be taken away by formal official procedure.

appointment = the specific job, usually attracting no extra pay [usually!]. Can be lost "just like that!"

It is true that the RA had these ranks:

Driver or gunner

bombardier

corporal

sergeant

a driver or gunner could be appointed lance bombardier ...... this could be paid or unpaid, and could be lost as easily as given

Hope this helps.

[Ruth Ward]

Definitions needed! This is a very simplified version.

rank = permanent pay grade, position in hierarchy, can only be taken away by formal official procedure.

appointment = the specific job, usually attracting no extra pay [usually!]. Can be lost "just like that!"

It is true that the RA had these ranks:

Driver or gunner

bombardier

corporal

sergeant

a driver or gunner could be appointed lance bombardier ...... this could be paid or unpaid, and could be lost as easily as given

Hope this helps.

I love simplified versions! Thank you, Grumpy - that helps a lot. I think I've got something to build on now.